MINUTES: MARCH 9, 2000, IAEI SUNCOAST DIVISION, FLORIDA CHAPTER
GENERAL MEETING: CITY OF SAFETY HARBOR


INSPECTOR MEMBERS 22 ASSOCIATE MEMBERS 8 GUEST 1


1.At 1:29 PM, the Suncoast Divison ‘s regularly scheduled meeting commenced at the City of Safety Harbor’s Council Chambers. The Pledge to the Flag followed by a round robin of introductions customarily took place.

The Chair recognized Jeremy Clore as a first time visitor. He has recently signed on with a local contractor, Midway Services.

The Chair commented that this is a better meeting place than the one the division had last month.
Secretary Christlieb explained that the Suncoast Divison meetings have been moved to the Largo Training Center on Highland Avenue. He commented on having been informed two weeks prior. Secretary Christlieb will have a map for the Division, compliments of Joe Bolesina.

2.The minutes were motioned for approval by Ralph Philbrook and a second made by Nelson Montgomery for acceptance of the minutes as printed. All were in favor.

On file with the Secretary are: Copy of Fenestration: The Magazine for Window and Door Industry; Copy of article written by Scott Wilson: The Electrical Inspector’s Pivotal Role; copy of literature pertinent to the CE mark as discussed at this meeting; copy of book Home Wiring Hazards; copy letter from Masters Technology addressing Neon Products certification; copy of Arlington Industries NM cable connector guide for multiple cable connection.

3.Ruben Rocha gave the treasure’s report as follows: total disbursements were $4,361.26; income $840.00 with more income due pending additional checks to be submitted by Dick Widera. A balance of $6,805.55 remains. Joe Bolesina inquired as to the number of attendees at the seminar. A total of 117 persons attended the Seminar. Nelson Montgomery made a motion to accept the Treasure’s report as read and Ralph Philbrook made a second. All were in favor.

4. The Secretary mentioned the May meeting in Cocoa Beach from May 11-13, 70TH Annual Florida Chapter Meeting. Secretary Christlieb initiated discussion to reschedule the Suncoast Division’s May general Meeting to May 18. General discussion ensued with the Division agreeing on May 18, at the City of Largo.

5.OLD BUSINESS: Joe Bolesina brought to the Division’s attention about the 30amp and 50-amp device needs to be protected accordingly. A GFCI breaker must be used and the breaker cannot exceed the ampere rating of the receptacle used. A three wire or a four wire device may be used. Richard Graham went on to explain some of the other items discusses at the Pinellas County meeting. Richard Graham also explained that by installing a 30 amp GFCI breaker on a 50-amp receptacle would help keep people from having to change cord caps on their equipment.

6. NEW BUSINESS: Joe Bolesina spoke about the Third draft of the Florida Building Code. Joe’s concerns were with one particular section (116.1) that gives more authority, to the building official or the electrical inspector to enter a property, than a police officer would have. Joe comments that this section of the Building Code would enable an inspector to enter a property if the Inspector thinks there is a code violation. Discussion about probable cause took place concerning the right to inspection.

Joe says we need to consider the rights of individuals while we (Inspectors) are doing our jobs judiciously. Further discussion took place concerning this issue.
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Bob Moore discussed his recent attendance at an Inspectors Initiative meeting in Chicago. This organization started out with the idea of implementing multi-head inspecting and merging various organizations. The meeting was about an organization in Denver that is putting together a package of codes and selling these codes to the City of Denver. The concern is with trading the NEC with any other code this organization may deem as fit. Various electrical organizations have voiced opinion and concerns about this potential practice. Bob asked for a general opinion on this issue. Further discussion about the meeting in Chicago took place. The primary concern is having multiple codes across the United States.

Joe Bolesina asked the U.L. representative and the IT’S representative if there is any initiative being conducted by any testing laboratories concerning the self-certification reference in the Florida Building Code.
Scott Wilson stated that ITS is working closely with U.L. and recently both testing laboratories met to discuss the non –support of self-certification. Both testing agencies are supporting follow up service; testing and certifying to nationally recognized standards. Scott made reference to ASTM E1886-97 for Exterior Windows, in excess of 120 miles per hour.

Bob Moore also brought to the Division’s attention a recent meeting concerning the Arc Fault Interrupter. He commented that the parallel Arc Fault Interrupter must see at least 75 amps of arc fault before it will trip. The series device can see as low as 5 amps. Bob made a comment in the ROP that if this device has got to see 5 amps of arc fault, then it has to have 5 amps of load on it. There may not be 5 amps of load on in a bedroom especially when you’re asleep. A comment about the 5 amps was made and Bob noted that it takes a 5-amp arc to ignite surgical gauze.
Discussion of application of the arc fault breaker took place. Application of the standard was also referenced.

Scott Wilson comments that a standard is like a consensus and the manufacturers that make up the panels make up that consensus. A standard is not written by a testing agency, it is written by consensus so one manufacturer is not locked out from another manufacturer in a non –compete environment.

Larry Diaz inquired about 373-5 (c). Larry was referred to this article with many of the jurisdictions are in a transitional period where inspectors are trying to determine what will be acceptable or not.

Nelson Montgomery submitted to the Division for review a copy of acceptable NM cable connectors made by Arlington Industries, which accepts more than one cable. Nelson attempted to clarify 373-5 (c). Further discussion by the municipalities in this area should follow.


7.Scott Wilson with Intertek Testing Services made his presentation about self-certification. Scott briefly described ITS and some of its history. Scott handed out reference materials and clipboards.

CE means “ Conformity European” and is based upon standards in Europe. Scott explained some of the various organizations that are attempting to have a global NEC code. The CE mark covers 15 countries in Europe that are members of the European union. Each country has its own certification mark. The CE mark eliminates country marks and establishes one mark. The United States has company marks, not country marks. Scott explained one mark “ NOM” which is a country mark for Mexico, and not acceptable in the USA. . A “CSA” mark without the NRTL designation is also not acceptable in the USA.

Scott explained that in the United States a mark is back up by 2 distinctive items: First, a listing report back by a third party certifier that says all the components are suitable for the applicable use. When all the components are put together, this is a system certification. Second, follow up service.


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Scott explained that a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory checks the manufacturer every 90 days for compliance. I f the manufacturer is in violation the listing is pulled. Scott described the process of review for a product.

The CE mark is, there is only one report and that is a test report. The manufacturer writes a declaration of conformity. No third party review of the manufacturer. The manufacturer is placing a self-declaration mark on that product and it conforms to a European standard.

Directives are generics in nature and standards are specific. A declaration of conformity has no follow up service. There is no means to control that product once a declaration of conformity is written.

Scott explained that all NRTL companies must inspect every manufacturer listed, every 90 days. All NRTL’s are accredited by standards; Scott commented that there are 93,000 standards in the United States.
Scott noted that European testing is done at 50 Hertz and not 60 Hertz. “EN”, Euro-Norm, is the standard for testing by the Europeans. Some examples, En standard says that a product must be tested at 50 Hertz; a product can not have words on the unit and symbology must be used in accordance with IEC 417; on and off must be a “1” and a “0”; a red LED means stop. Green cannot be used for a ground wire, which is designated as white in Europe.

A country mark is not representative of meeting applicable product safety standards. Equipment is certified if it has been tested by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory and meets Nationally Recognized Standards for a product to be safe for use in a specified manner or, production is periodically inspected by a NRTL, and bears a mark. The mark can only be next to the manufacturer’s data plate.
The mark can only be put on at the point of manufacture. The mar is the only indication that the product has been listed, labeled, and certified by a NRTL in accordance to Federal Law.
OSHA lists NRTL’s and OSHA lists the standards. Any one can test. Only a few can certify. It is accreditation that enables a NRTL to test and certify. Scott commented that other countries have the authority to confiscate equipment.

Scott made reference to the electrical wiring brought in by the Secretary that demonstrates some unique Code violations. ITS has written a Home Wiring Hazards guide that was written for the Consumer Product Safety Commission to help a homeowner to understand the basic hazards of wring and how it can affect his home. They are available at no charge.

The Division applauded Scott for his presentation

8.The Secretary was asked about the electrical device that he brought in, which was a piece of wood with a neutral bar screwed into it for connection of neutrals on one side and another piece of a neutral bar screwed onto the other side for the hot. All connections were exposed and protected by a 60-amp overcurrent device. This was found in a home that was under renovation by a homeowner and was found energized,
Exposed in a garage and mounted 5 feet above the floor. Secretary Christlieb further explained how the service riser was propped up against a tree for support because the homeowner knocked down a brick fascia that originally supported the electrical service.


8.A 2:50pm, a motion for adjournment was made by Nelson Montgomery and a second made by Pat Feighan.