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#1451 - 01/03/05 11:06 AM outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Nick Sasso Offline

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Wanted to check myself on this:

Got an outdoor type audio speaker within 5 feet from the waters edge. This is not an underwater speaker, just an above ground (weatherproof) outdoor speaker so you can hear music while outside.

Am I correct in that 680.10 would apply here, and that the wiring should be at least 5 feet away?
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#1452 - 01/03/05 11:58 AM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Mike Timpanaro Offline

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I think the code section you wanted is 640.10 not 680.10 as you typed. Yes I agree with you, if you want look at 640.3(i), 640.10(a), but be carefull cause 640.10(b) might just change things.
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#1453 - 01/03/05 12:03 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Nick Sasso Offline

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10-4 Mike, thanks.
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#1454 - 01/03/05 12:27 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Mike Timpanaro Offline

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In addition check out 640.9(c) and FPN 2.
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#1455 - 01/03/05 12:56 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Anonymous
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The interesting thing I see in 640.10(A) is the distance is measured laterally, with no regard to height.
"Audio system equipment supplied by branch-circuit power shall not be placed laterally within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the inside wall of a pool, spa, hot tub, or fountain, or within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the prevailing or tidal high water mark."
They are saying you can't even have a speaker where you could have a luminaire. (12ft up)
It would also seem to prohibit speakers on any structure that extends out beyond 5' of the high tide mark. Are we going to raid the St Pete or Naples pier? (along with 10,000 waterside resturants)
Actually some of those resturants need a good inspector raid but that is another issue. ;-)

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#1456 - 01/05/05 01:57 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
John Desjardins Offline
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Having been the pres. of a sound company in a previous life most speakers are able to be supplied by CL2 circuits. The amps still must be away.

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#1457 - 01/05/05 11:08 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Anonymous
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The article does not talk about the wiring method (IE:CL2) to the speaker. The way I read it, if the amp is line powered the speakers can't be within 5' of the water's edge.

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#1458 - 01/06/05 07:52 AM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Mike Timpanaro Offline

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Article 640.9 identifies the type wiring methods and also references article 725. The output wiring method is determined by the listing marked on the amplifier as to the class. They can be class 1, 2, or 3.
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#1459 - 01/06/05 12:11 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Anonymous
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640.10 doesn't care.
"Audio system equipment supplied by branch-circuit power shall not be placed laterally within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the inside wall of a pool, spa, hot tub, or fountain, or within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the prevailing or tidal high water mark"

Defined as;
"Audio Signal Processing Equipment. Electrically operated equipment that produces or processes, or both, electronic signals that, when appropriately amplified and reproduced by a loudspeaker, produce an acoustic signal within the range of normal human hearing (typically 20-20 kHz). Within this article, the terms equipment and audio equipment are assumed to be equivalent to audio signal processing equipment.

FPN:This equipment includes, but is not limited to, LOUDSPEAKERS; headphones; pre-amplifiers; microphones and their power supplies; mixers; MIDI (musical instrument digital interface) equipment or other digital control systems; equalizers, compressors, and other audio signal processing equipment; audio media recording and playback equipment, including turntables, tape decks and disk players (audio and multimedia), synthesizers, tone generators, and electronic organs. Electronic organs and synthesizers may have integral or separate amplification and loudspeakers. With the exception of amplifier outputs, virtually all such equipment is used to process signals (utilizing analog or digital techniques) that have nonhazardous levels of voltage or current potential."

I am assuming that they feel a fault in the <line powered> amp could present line voltage to the speaker leads. In older equipment the chassis might actually be connected to one side of the line, hopefully the grounded conductor. That assumes the plug cap is polarized, installed properly and that the receptacle is wired correctly.

It should also be noted that commercial/professional grade amps operate speakers on a 70v line.

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#1460 - 01/06/05 01:31 PM Re: outdoor audio speaker next to pool
Mike Timpanaro Offline

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I think that Nick was talking about the location of a speaker at a residential pool. Maybe he can give us that info.

640.9 defines the class and listing of amplifiers and will determine the type wiring methods required for that class in conjunction with article 725.

640.10(a). Your information is correct and well put by the way, and I believe I agreed with that in my first post to Nick.

But I also wanted to caution, 640.10(b) does not require the restricted placement of speakers that 640.10(a) limits, if the amplifier output is listed and marked for use with class 2 wiring. But the amplifier itself if supplied by branch circuit power is still subject to 640.10(a)

That's the point I was making, the class needed to be verified because if the amplifier output is class 2 than the requirements of 640.10(a) do not apply unless the manufacturer of the amplifier recommends restricted placement per 640.10(b).
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