MENU
Florida Chapter Officers
BOD Chairman
Nelson Montgomery
President
Dan Prater
1st Vice President
Ted Licitra
2nd Vice President
Mark Deegan
3rd Vice President
Richard Wheelus
Chaplain
Vince Dellacroce
Secretary
Joe DuPriest
Treasurer
Eric L Wasser
Parliamentarian
Tim Wright
Who's Online
0 registered (), 9 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Spike, dsf, Christoper, Shawn M, Amarillas
517 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Bryan Holland 8
Nick Sasso 5
Heinz R. 2
Mike Timpanaro 1
TerryR 1
SOwings 1
Christoper 1
Google Search
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#2261 - 02/21/06 10:40 AM NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
I run across a large number of installations where the electrician installs NM cable in Liquid-tight conduit to outside equipment such as A/C units and well equipment.

I have failed these jobs and have required the installation of cables or condutors listed for wet location based on 225.4 / 310.8 of the NEC.

Some have argued that the conductors in NM cable is thhn, however even so, 310.8(C) does not list thhn as listed for wet location and 334.10(A) also states "normally dry location."

I discussed the issue with UL and they claim any insulation type listed in Table 310.13 and is rated at 90° C. will comply. Its basically up to the manufacturer.

I called one NM manufacturer whom stated their conductors are insulated with basically THHN without the nylon jacket. They also confirmed NM is not to be used outdoors or in wet locations.

So, it appears I have the code on my side, however I don't know if common sense is. Is the inside of a raceway listed for a wet location also a wet location? Yes or no, the code indicates it doesn't matter.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top
#2262 - 02/21/06 11:27 AM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Anonymous
Unregistered


From a practical sense I doubt you will have any dead babies from Romex inside sealtite in a wet location but it is still a code violation. I have seen Romex that survived decades direct buried. It held a GFCI OK but it is certainly not legal.

Top
#2263 - 02/21/06 08:12 PM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
I agree, it is a violation. THHN is not for use in a wet location.

A semi-good way to remember what is listed for wet:
If it has a 'W' in it, then it is probably listed for use in a wet location (but remember that the W doesn't necessarily stand for "wet"). Check the charts to see if I'm right.
_________________________

Top
#2264 - 02/21/06 08:13 PM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
What about UF?
_________________________

Top
#2265 - 02/21/06 10:45 PM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Anonymous
Unregistered


"W" does mean wet. UF is Underground Feeder, "wetter than wet". It could be in your Carflex too, outside.

Top
#2266 - 02/21/06 10:48 PM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
Where are you getting that W means wet? I researched this once, oh about 4 years or so ago.
_________________________

Top
#2267 - 02/22/06 07:15 AM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Mike Timpanaro Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1104
Loc: Ocklawaha FL.
You are correct Bryan, I spoke with an old friend who is on CMP-8, and although the raceway you install the NM cable in is liquid-tight and is used to protect conductors in a wet location, that does not apply to outside, since the problem is condensation due to temperature changes...just like underground raceways per 356.10(2).
_________________________
Michael J Timpanaro
Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor
Florida




Top
#2268 - 02/22/06 07:18 AM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Mike Timpanaro Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1104
Loc: Ocklawaha FL.
Please excuse my not posting often, I am one of the inspectors for the TV show build project Extreme Makeover. Just got off a 22 hour tour.
_________________________
Michael J Timpanaro
Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor
Florida




Top
#2269 - 02/22/06 11:00 AM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
Very cool! That must be an interesting experience...
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top
#2270 - 02/22/06 12:48 PM Re: NM Cable in LFNC Outside
Anonymous
Unregistered


I had a chart from one of the manufacturers that had all the codes on it. "W" usually means wet or water resistant. Machine Tool Wire (MTW) is one exception. I think it is always true in "building wire" conductors tho. The safest way is still to look it up if you see an unknown wire type.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Active Topics
May Meeting Minutes
by Bryan Holland
Yesterday at 02:05 PM
May Meeting Announcement
by Bryan Holland
05/08/12 07:58 AM
Visual Alarms
by Nick Sasso
05/02/12 03:55 PM
Nonmetallic Extensions
by Nick Sasso
04/25/12 03:33 PM
Selective Coordination of Circuit Breakers
by Heinz R.
04/24/12 05:03 PM
May
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Featured Member
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 0
Forum Stats
518 Members
29 Forums
1892 Topics
8569 Posts

Max Online: 53 @ 03/30/12 04:16 PM
Uploaded Pictures
Can You Spot The Electrical Violation?
1948 Signalite Fuse
Portable Generator Grounding
2011 Florida Gulf Coast Division - Seminar
Knob and tube in industrial application
1920's Duplex Radio Outlet
Random Gallery Image