MENU
Florida Chapter Officers
BOD Chairman
Dan Prater
President
Ted Licitra
1st Vice President
Mark Deegan
2nd Vice President
Richard Wheelus
3rd Vice President
Vince Dellacroce
Chaplain
James Douglas
Secretary
Joe DuPriest
Treasurer
Eric L Wasser
Parliamentarian
Tim Wright
Who's Online
0 registered (), 9 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ddasa, mcfs509, Spike, dsf, Christoper
519 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Nick Sasso 5
Bryan Holland 5
Heinz R. 2
Mike Timpanaro 1
SOwings 1
TerryR 1
Google Search
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#5810 - 11/08/08 12:58 PM Where is the hazard?
gfretwell
Unregistered


I can usually rationalize a code issue by defining a hazard but my wife stumped me yesterday. She has an old panel that is installed over a 11 1/2" shelf. We both know that is a working space violation but I can't explain the hazard. There is plenty of elbow room around the panel itself and the height is OK. The 11 1/2" shelf still allows adequate approach and even provides a counter top to put your tools on. It is non-conductive (wood with polyurethane).
After seeing it, I am thinking about putting a shelf under mine ;-)

Top
#5811 - 11/08/08 05:01 PM Re: Where is the hazard? [Re: ]
Ruben Rocha Offline
Senior Member
*****

Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 767
Not knowing the actual panel conditions.
And we all know that codes are usually generic in nature meaning it would be impossible to write a code to meet all actual conditions.

I can give you one example where it is a hazard.

To just open the panel and look it might be fine. You are standing at arms distance away.
Now try to add a circuit when you really need to put your body up against the wall to take out the ko and fish the wire in. If the shelf is there you need to kinda lean against the wall with your head and your torso is against the shelf. If something happens like a fault or whatever what do you do?
You can't just drop to the ground because the shelf is in the way.
To get away because you are bent over you will need to push yourself away against the wall.
When I am working something hot I don't even like scrap wire cuttings on the floor let alone the end of the fishtape reel laying at your feet.

Top
#5812 - 11/09/08 12:00 AM Re: Where is the hazard? [Re: Ruben Rocha]
gfretwell
Unregistered


Just to be the devil's advocate I might say NFPA70E probably prohibits you from fishing into a live panel ...

... but I see your point.

Top
#5813 - 11/10/08 09:09 AM Re: Where is the hazard? [Re: ]
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
Most of the provisions in Article 110 of the NEC are derived directly from OSHA. OSHA and the NFPA has been greatly influenced by the insurance industry.

So, I agree with your point. There is not a direct and evident hazard associted with lack of working space about electrical equipment. However, having required working space removes liability from the underwriter's in the event someone gets hurt while working on the equipment.

It's a shame, but I think this is where our industry is today.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top
#5814 - 11/10/08 01:35 PM Re: Where is the hazard? [Re: Bryan Holland]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
That's right Bryan. See who is in charge of the whole ball of wax in North Carolina:
http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/default.asp

Top
#5815 - 11/10/08 03:31 PM Re: Where is the hazard? [Re: John Desjardins]
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
Thanks for the link. Very interestng stuff!
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top



Active Topics
May Meeting Minutes
by Bryan Holland
05/17/12 02:05 PM
May Meeting Announcement
by Bryan Holland
05/08/12 07:58 AM
Visual Alarms
by Nick Sasso
05/02/12 03:55 PM
Nonmetallic Extensions
by Nick Sasso
04/25/12 03:33 PM
Selective Coordination of Circuit Breakers
by Heinz R.
04/24/12 05:03 PM
May
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Featured Member
123
123
Registered: 08/08/11
Posts: 0
Forum Stats
519 Members
29 Forums
1892 Topics
8569 Posts

Max Online: 53 @ 03/30/12 04:16 PM
Uploaded Pictures
Can You Spot The Electrical Violation?
1948 Signalite Fuse
Portable Generator Grounding
2011 Florida Gulf Coast Division - Seminar
Knob and tube in industrial application
1920's Duplex Radio Outlet
Random Gallery Image