Hello Group,

It has been relayed to me that statements made on a Forum like this one by a government official (inspector, PX, etc.) could be deemed as an 'official statement of policy' even if the statement is identified as a personal opinion.

It has also been said to me that comments or statements made on a Forum like this one can be used as evidence or substantiation in the event of a complaint or court case especially if comments made here are in conflict with enforcement practices in the jurisidiction for which the person making the comment works.

Considering that most of us identify who we are and who we work for and what organizations we represent, are we adding liability to our professions by participating on these forums?

What are you thoughts on this matter?

This issue has been brought up a couple of times. With no real resolution.
If someone would to really persue this issue the only person that can answer this legally would be an attorney.
Not someone that may think they know the laws.

And if it is a true statement someone better inform the Building Officials Association of Florida and the IAEI in texas. Because they have forums also based on code discussions.

Sounds similar to the hogwash a former association official said to me once. Nick Sasso has his own opinion, and he will not be silenced!!! Go file a complaint on me if you think I make "official" statments (whoever you are). We are all entitled to our own opinion!!!

It seems like these days we are always having to watch our back and try not to offend anyone or group. I think we should continue to use this forum to discuss code issues and ask questions of each other. I have learned alot from reading these topics and I dont think we should be worried that someone might use our comments as evidence in some court. We are here to help our industry and to promote electrical safety. Just tell it the way it is.

This topic has tweaked my curiosity.
Lets say a contractor has a issue on a job where he calls the local building department for clarification on code requirements for a certain portion of the job. The job is in inspector "A" area. But when he calls in he talks to inspector "B".
After some discussion contractor believes he can do a installation that will pass inspection based on inspector "B".
Inspector "A" is called out for inspection and issues a red tag.

To add to this Inspector "B" either misunderstood the question or was incorrect with his advise.

Whats the difference here?

Maybe the guys who do have AHJ authority should add a disclaimer to their tag line, similar to the one in the IAEI magazine when they give code opinions.

Yep if anyone is concerned they could always add a disclaimer in their signature line.
Maybe that will give them a warm fuzzy feeling.

We are all entitled to our opinions and more importantly, the freedom to express them. If you are worried about a possible misinterpretation just add three simple words, "In my opinion..." to the beginning of your statement.

If forums like these are avenues for "official" statements then nobody can say anything as 98% of the people on these forums are Florida licensed professionals.

I am always wary of those who try to silence another.

And how about every instructor. I am an electrical instructor here in Florida as well National and am looking to go global. But here is the thing...other instructors (who I will not name) that teach code for themselves or other orginizations...offer their opinions too. Are they to be held accountable for their opinions?

I personally think that this is taken way to far.

My opinion is...No Problem.

I agree with Nick 100%

I think one of the issues involved could be if you post from the city or county jurisdiction server or use governmental equipment to do the posting.

When did it become bad for a city or county jurisdiction to conduct research?

I think the jurisdiction should give the employee a raise for going to the extra effort to ask questions, increase his/her knowledge, find solutions, etc., in order to benefit the community that they serve.

The argument apparently occurs that if you are using public time and equipment anything you place in writing is consider public record. Then perhaps you could be held accountable for your public record comments if called into a court of law.
An attorney will use every means necessary to assist their client or client’s case including using public records of statements made by you in a public forum.

Secondly I believe it is reasonable in this day and age to expect a future employer to check your postings within a forum. Some employers are now researching furture employees websites or their posting on web pages such as like Face Book, My Space, etc., before hiring them.

Hogwash. Everybody stop living or you may get in trouble.

All I can say is that every jurisdiction that I worked for had no problem in my posting my opinions on a code forum, if it was Building Officials Association of Florida, IAEI, IAEIFL, or Mike Holt...etc. I asked permission first...but was given an ok.

So in my opinion......ok.

If we don't think this way than Building Officials Association of Florida or IAEI needs to shut down their forum, as well as their informal interpretation group, because most who post are government employees.

Guess Casey Anthony has nothing to fear since she was only expressing her opinion with her posting.

5:19 p.m. A judge said he will decide later if the public will get to see personal photos Casey Anthony posted on an online-picture sharing Web site." I understand the public's need to know," said attorney Jose Baez. "However, these are issues that are irrelevant and could jeopardize my client's right to a fair trial."

I am only suggesting that when using city or county resources you consider what you post and use some caution. I am not suggesting you not post your comments on "code" but rather do not make any discriminatory or off color comments especially when you serve as a public official.

Oh yes I agree with that.....I thought you were talking about the general posting of a code opinion on the forum.

And what constitutes a public official, Don? Would that be a building official, or something else? What is itching you, Don? Please, share it with us.

Don has hit the nail on the head. Let me tell you where this is all coming from.

A few months back, I forwarded a link and comment made on another Forum (Yahoo Groups) to several other electrical forums. The link was to a court order regarding a certain lightning protection company and the comment was made by a leading engineer in the field of lightning. I personally made no comments myself and gave credit for the link and comments to the author.

A few weeks later, I received an official letter from an attorney threatening a lawsuit against my employer and myself. They had determined that by making that post to a public forum(s), I was establishing an official "policy" and "opinion" on the matter. (I was indeed using a City computer and internet connection at the time of the posts while on city time.) They also claimed that I was in violation of ethics rules considering I was placed in an administrative / moderator role by the Forum owners which could be constituted as "receiving a benefit" do to my professional position.

As you would expect, the city attorney wanted to cover his butt so he looked into all the fine print on this matter and any previous instances of this matter.

The end result.

My employer feels that I am free to post on these forums since the city supports my involvement with the IAEI, Building Officials Association of Florida, ICC, etc. However, it was also established that anything I say could in fact be interpreted as my official position as a "public official" EVEN if I state it is my own PERSONAL opinion. It appears that in some instances a personal opinion and professional position can't be separated.

Anyway, all is good in the world again. But, I am a bit leery of posting comments and opinions now with the thought in the back of my head that someone somewhere will find a way to use it against me in the future.

I would not base "the correct answer" for this entire topic upon one instance in which one letter was written by one attoney, just my opinion.

Of course not Nick. Thst is why I came here for some highly respected opinions (on and of the record).

First of all let me say that I don't think this topic belongs in this forum. It should be in General Discussion.
Now to the question.
I can see where Bryan has a concern. Many attorneys will attempt a "scatter gun" technique meaning win by intimidation.
But as many members here are employees of municipalities I can see the concern.

I see several alternatives for this site for people that have a concern.

Did I say this topic should be moved?

1. I can turn off all profile fields that show say occupation.
At least that will not show who you work for. Or users can delete them themselves

2. You can delete your public email in your profile.(this is another clue where you work)

3.You can change your display name to a nickmane. I would need to approve each one so we don't have duplicates.

Worse case scenario is turn the board into a completely private forum. But who is going to police who is allowed to access same.

Maybe keep comments to actual code sections. And keep out personal opinion.