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#6295 - 05/18/09 12:37 PM 2007 FBC
Rob Barbee Offline
Mechanic Member
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Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 120
Loc: Pinellas County
105.3.1.2 - why would they get rid of the text and reference a statute that says the same thing? The reference to a statute was added in the supplements, not in the print edition.

When applying the LAW, 471.003, if adding a 200a panel to an 800 amp existing service, would you all require a sealed set?
_________________________
Rob
Electrical Inspector

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#6299 - 05/18/09 03:12 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: Rob Barbee]
Bryan Holland Online   shocked

Secretary
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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1599
Loc: City of North Port
Yes. (assuming the $50,000 cost is met as well)

By the way, we adopt the Building Officials Association of Florida Model Chapter 1 which still includes the language.
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#6301 - 05/18/09 06:31 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: Bryan Holland]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
The state and the text were slightly different. Code said 800A & over Statute says over 800 A.


Edited by silvertones (05/18/09 06:35 PM)

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#6308 - 05/20/09 05:11 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: John Desjardins]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
See the conflict? Read carefully.
2.a. Requires an aggregate service capacity of 600 amperes (240 volts) or less on a residential electrical system or 800 amperes (240 volts) or less on a commercial or industrial electrical system;

It says over 600A Res. and over 800A comm. need engineer.
Code says:
600A and over Res. & 800A and over Comm. need engineer.
WEIRD

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#6313 - 05/27/09 05:14 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: John Desjardins]
Mike Timpanaro Offline
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Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1101
Loc: Ocklawaha FL.
It was a mistake as written in 105.3 FBC. But electrical seems to be gone in the 2007 FBC?

Chapter 471.003 is an exemption from engineering. (800 amps or less).

_________________________
Michael J Timpanaro
Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor
Florida




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#6314 - 05/27/09 05:51 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
Well the 2007 FBC Chapter #1 Admin no longer mentions it however no one uses that Chapter #1 they all use the Building Officials Association of Florida Model Chapter #1.The 2007 Building Officials Association of Florida model Chapter #1 is not out yet. At this point you still have the conflict between FBC & Statute. To paraphrase for clarity:
1. Statue exempts 800A & less Comm. & 600A & less res. From being engineered.
2. FBC exempts less then 800A comm. & less then 600A Res. from being engineered.

Does the stricter requirement of the FBC override the Statute?

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#6315 - 05/27/09 06:18 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: John Desjardins]
Don Fuchs Offline

Apprentice Member
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Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 44
FS Chapter 471.003 over rides the FBC in my opinion.
_________________________
Donald Fuchs Jr., MCP, CBO

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#6316 - 05/27/09 06:25 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: Don Fuchs]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
Don,
I have to agree. The Codes are there to implement the Statutes. As an Elect. Insp./Plans Exam/Contractor I hope the Statute changes to require Engineering of 800A/600A and greater as we always did.

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#6320 - 05/28/09 01:57 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: John Desjardins]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
2007 Building Officials Association of Florida Model Chapter #1 is still in conflict and has requirements greater then the Statute.

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#6321 - 05/28/09 03:12 PM Re: 2007 FBC [Re: John Desjardins]
Bryan Holland Online   shocked

Secretary
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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1599
Loc: City of North Port
Regardless of who actually prepares and signs their name to the construction documents, I as a plans examiner, require the same amount of information and design to be provided on the plans. This includes conductor sizes, conductor types, ground detail, overcurrent protection sizing and types, load calculations, short circuit analysis and available fault current calculations, equipment AIC ratings, selective coordination analysis, so on and so forth.

As indicated by Mr. Kuritzky, the larger the system, the more complicated the above items become. Most electrical contractors and architects are not up for the task, not because they are unskilled or not smart enough, but because it is typically beyond their scope of training and education. This is not to say all professional engineers are up for the task either, as I have rejected many plans on first submittal for lack of compliant design of the electrical system.

That said, I do agree the matter needs to be resolved for proper enforcement and correlation of the laws and rules we must all follow.
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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