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#6327 - 05/29/09 07:56 PM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: ]
Ruben Rocha Offline

Senior Member
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Registered: 05/24/00
Posts: 764
Loc: Lutz,FL
Well I don't get it Bryan.
If the hazard is there then something had to change.
Even in the last several code cycles. It was required that the 8AWG wire was connected to the pump. And you were required to a have a grounding conductor to the pump.
So maybe after several years the pump was replaced the #8 wire was not reconnected and the chemicals corroded the grounding conductor connection.
So since most jurisdictions don't monitor pool repair/service companies. How can we determine the problem is not the code but enforcement of say the person that cleans the pool then replaces the pump and does not ensure that the bonding conductor is reconnected and that the grounding conductor is intact.

I will agree that the GFCI will help mitigate the problem.
But it will not correct the cause.
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#6329 - 05/29/09 10:13 PM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: ]
Nick Sasso Online   content

Post-A-Holic Member
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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: West Palm Beach
I have a really weird freakin' idea. How about all of these regulatory and legislative bodies quit screwing with the NEC?
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#6331 - 05/31/09 03:44 PM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: Nick Sasso]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
They aren't going to be able to get away from this.

R4101.7.2 Installation. Pumps shall be installed in accordance with manufacturer recommendations.

Because the NEC is a National Standard pump manufacturers will require GFCI protection to be inline with the NEC. The Commision can change the Code all they want however they CAN NOT require deviation from the Manufactures installation Instruction.
I've run into this many times. Not just Electrical. If the manufacturers Installation Requirements are greater then the Code they must be installed by the MII.
That is why I ALWAYS require all equipment documentation before any inspections. If you don't you can find yourself behind the 8 ball!

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#6332 - 05/31/09 04:12 PM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: John Desjardins]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
Case in point.
Does a non seperatly derived generator require a ground rod at the generator? NO

The Manufacturers Installation Instructions for Generac Generators require it.
Does it get installed. You Bet!!

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#6334 - 06/01/09 08:30 AM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: John Desjardins]
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1600
Loc: City of North Port
Good point John!


...Nick always comes up with the most crazy ideas!...
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#6335 - 06/01/09 10:49 AM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: Bryan Holland]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
From Hayward:


WARNING – All electrical wiring MUST be in conformance with all applicable local codes, regulations, and the National Electric Code (NEC).

Tells me GFCI will be required.

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#6336 - 06/01/09 11:03 AM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: John Desjardins]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
From Sta-rite

Wiring
Pump must be permanently connected to circuit. Table I, below, gives correct
wire and circuit breaker sizes for the pump alone. If other lights or appliances
are also on the same circuit, be sure to add their amp loads to pump amp load
before figuring wire and circuit breaker sizes. (If unsure how to do this or if
this is confusing, consult a licensed electrician.) Use the load circuit breaker
as the master on-off switch.
Install a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) in circuit; it will sense a shortcircuit
to ground and disconnect power before it becomes dangerous to pool
users. For size of GFCI required and test procedures, see GFCI manufacturer’s
instruction.
In case of power outage, check GFCI for tripping (which will prevent normal
pump operation). Reset if necessary.
NOTICE: If you do not use conduit when wiring motor, be sure to seal wire
opening on end of motor to prevent dirt, bugs, etc., from entering.

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#6337 - 06/01/09 11:03 AM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: John Desjardins]
John Desjardins Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
Need I say more!You are so right Nick.

Common sense = GFCI
NEC = GFCI
FBC = No GFCI
Manf. Inst. = GFCI

So once again the FBC makes us go round & round to get to were we were in the first place. The problem is not everyone looks at the Manuf. Inst.

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#6343 - 06/03/09 10:38 AM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: Nick Sasso]
John Belew Offline
Electrical Inspector/Plans Examiner

Registered: 06/26/01
Posts: 56
Loc: Milton,FL
AMEN!

Originally Posted By: Nick Sasso
I have a really weird freakin' idea. How about all of these regulatory and legislative bodies quit screwing with the NEC?
_________________________
John Belew
Electrical Inspector/Plans Examiner
Santa Rosa Co.
johnb@santarosa.fl.gov

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#6358 - 06/11/09 04:57 PM Re: Rule 9B – 3.047, GFCI Protection [Re: John Belew]
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1600
Loc: City of North Port
It appears the rule has gone thru thus effective July 1st 2009, the 2008 NEC is adopted with one amendment. Section 680.22(B) will not apply to 1&2 family dwellings.
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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