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#6325 - 05/29/09 01:31 PM
Re: Rule 9B 3.047, GFCI Protection
[Re: ]
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Secretary
Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1600
Loc: City of North Port
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If you read the data provided by the CPSC used as the substantiation for the rule, there has been many inujuries and deaths here in the US related to contact with pool pump motors.
The problem appears to be the fact that persons working around / maintaining their pool equipment are coming in contact with the pool pump motor and the timer, other enclosures, etc. and hurting / killing themselves. It only requires a small amount of leakage current, ususally caused by corrosion from the pool water chemicals, to be imposed on the motor housing for someone to be severely shocked. This leakage current is well below the threshold to trip a standard circuit breaker and is not mitigated by the equipotential bonding system. A GFCI device would be sufficient in preventing this hazard from occuring.
So yes, it will cost a little more for GFCI breakers, and perhaps the pump motors will have to be replaced more often, but, the NFPA's nationally recognized consensus process deemed it necessary and prudent for all pool installations.
You know me Greg. I am not a huge fan of manufacturer's lobby and other lobbying interests that have force-fed new code down our throats with no substaniation at all, but there can be no arguement or GFCI protection, especially of outdoor, pool related, wet, and corrossive electrical equipment.
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP
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#6336 - 06/01/09 11:03 AM
Re: Rule 9B 3.047, GFCI Protection
[Re: John Desjardins]
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Mechanic Member
Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 306
Loc: Body=NC, Head & Heart=Florida
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From Sta-rite
Wiring
Pump must be permanently connected to circuit. Table I, below, gives correct
wire and circuit breaker sizes for the pump alone. If other lights or appliances
are also on the same circuit, be sure to add their amp loads to pump amp load
before figuring wire and circuit breaker sizes. (If unsure how to do this or if
this is confusing, consult a licensed electrician.) Use the load circuit breaker
as the master on-off switch.
Install a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) in circuit; it will sense a shortcircuit
to ground and disconnect power before it becomes dangerous to pool
users. For size of GFCI required and test procedures, see GFCI manufacturers
instruction.
In case of power outage, check GFCI for tripping (which will prevent normal
pump operation). Reset if necessary.
NOTICE: If you do not use conduit when wiring motor, be sure to seal wire
opening on end of motor to prevent dirt, bugs, etc., from entering.
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#6360 - 06/11/09 11:06 PM
Re: Rule 9B 3.047, GFCI Protection
[Re: Ruben Rocha]
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Post-A-Holic Member
Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: West Palm Beach
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Hey guys, the Florida Building Commission makes total sense on this issue, because everyone knows that the electrical for a commercial pool is far more dangerous than the electrical for a residence. WAY TO GO 'FELLAS!
They should keep screwing with the electrical code until there is an accident. Then after the accident, they can go retroactive and abolish the amendment, and adopt the NEC as written. Until then, the prority is to coddle the pool contractors. "Waaaaaaaaahhh. Waaaaaaaaaaahh. We don't wanna do it............."
I'm sure this is the result of some very smart "engineers" on the commission and not the electrical tac. The tac voted to adopt as written. This is probably the result of a civil engineer, or several, or a building official with no electrical experience, applying their superior intelect and knowledge. If an electrical engineer voted for this amendment then I will eat my pouch.
If the manufacturer's instructions require it and it's not there you can be sure I'm writing a RED TAG. If my building official says they don't need it then he can PUT IT IN WRITING. If I ever get the chance to act as an expert in a law suit where there was no GFCI protection, than rest assured I will make mincemeat out of that contractor (your liability insurance rates will triple) and the jurisdiction as well. I should be so lucky.
And no, it's not a call from the building official - to violate 110.3(b) on purpose because the commission is not smart enough to know the difference.
ns
Edited by Nick Sasso (06/11/09 11:11 PM)
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#6379 - 06/15/09 07:58 AM
Re: Rule 9B 3.047, GFCI Protection
[Re: ]
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Secretary
Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1600
Loc: City of North Port
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Here is one commentary on the issue I was able to find online: FBC adopts 2008 NEC, exempting GFCI requirement on residential pools
FSPA President Alan Cooper, "This epitomizes what our government relations program is all about. Further, it is an excellent example of the importance of having a swimming pool contractor on the FBC."
On Tuesday the Florida Building Commission (FBC) held a final rule hearing on glitch rule 9B-3.047, which encompassed a number of proposed changes to the 2007 Florida Building Code (the code). Most important to the pool industry was the 2008 NEC discussion.
In April the FBC voted to adopt the 2008 NEC, but exempt the GFCI requirement on residential pools. However, the National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA) and others received word of this action and were in attendance on Tuesday. Testimony from a NEMA representative and an electrical contractor asked the FBC to reverse their original decision and adopt the 2008 NEC in total. Representatives from FSPA and other groups provided testimony to rebut the NEMA claims and encourage the FBC to stand by their original decision.
Larry Brown, FSPA Central Florida member and electrical contractor for Mid Florida Pools, did a superb job rebutting the NEMA testimony. In addition, comments were made to the FBC by UPSA members. To sum up the discussion, Commissioner Ken Gregory spoke to his fellow Commissioners asking them to vote down a motion to adopt the 2008 NEC in its entirety. The FBC agreed with him and the testimony the pool industry provided, ultimately voting down the motion 16-6. The original decision to adopt the 2008 NEC except for the GFCI requirement on residential pools withstood.
Also note that the FBC voted to incorporate into the glitch rule the 64E-9, F.A.C., public pool code revisions.
Read this story in its entirety in the July issue of Florida Pool Pro (sm).
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP
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