MENU
Florida Chapter Officers
BOD Chairman
Nelson Montgomery
President
Dan Prater
1st Vice President
Ted Licitra
2nd Vice President
Mark Deegan
3rd Vice President
Richard Wheelus
Chaplain
Vince Dellacroce
Secretary
Joe DuPriest
Treasurer
Eric L Wasser
Parliamentarian
Tim Wright
Who's Online
1 registered (Ruben Rocha), 6 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
onzevil1, beaing, ampherder, TonyLutziFlaRep, Jeff Sargent
507 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Bryan Holland 12
Ruben Rocha 5
inspector32513 3
Nick Sasso 3
ronwampler 2
DickWidera 1
Google Search
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#6557 - 08/24/09 09:07 AM UL676 - Comments Appreciated
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1599
Loc: City of North Port
Please read the following report and respond with your comments and opinions. I greatly appreciate your thoughts and experiences.

Quote:
BACKGROUND

UL has received requests from industry, both swimming pool and fountain luminaire manufacturers, to remove the requirement for an equipment grounding conductor (EGC) in a low-voltage luminaire. Manufacturers felt the EGC had no value and sometimes caused problems with newer LED luminaire circuits. They also pointed out that the requirements in UL 676 conflicted with the requirements for certification of the same luminaries in Europe.

BACKGROUND AND RATIONALE OF PRESENT REQUIREMENTS

Beginning with the 1972 first edition, UL 676 included the Electric Shock Test to evaluate the risk of electric shock posed by the electric current that escapes a swimming pool or spa luminaire that has a leaking gasket or a cracked or broken lens. Specifically, this test determines if the average density of electric current that conducts out of the cracks, gaps, or openings in the face of the water-filled luminaire and into a pool occupant poses a risk of ventricular fibrillation or immobilization of the muscles of the pool occupant’s arms, legs, or diaphragm (used for breathing).

Electric current will conduct out of a pool or spa luminaire only if there is a conductive path back out of the pool water to metal (current-carrying or non-current-carrying) that is part of, or connected to, the same circuit and that exhibits a voltage potential difference with respect to the water-contacting current-carrying parts of the flooded luminaire. The current path from the pool water back to the metal that is part of, or connected to, the same circuit can be through metal, pool water, earth, or any combination of these. Items (a) – (c) below identify examples of current paths for electric current that has exited the face of a flooded luminaire and, therefore, poses a risk of electric shock to a pool occupant. These examples do not cover all possibilities. The design of the Escape Current Density Test, however, addresses these and all other possible current paths.

a) Current-carrying parts within the flooded luminaire are supplied by a grounded branch circuit (120 volts) and the current conducts out of the luminaire to return to the circuit by conducting into grounded metal of the same flooded luminaire, grounded metal of other underwater luminaires, or to the grounding electrode of the premises electric system through a ladder, reinforcing steel, or other metal object of the pool that contacts both the pool water and earth.

b) Current-carrying parts within the flooded luminaire are supplied by a normally ungrounded line voltage branch circuit (240 volts) that has experienced an insulation failure, allowing a current-carrying part of the circuit to fault to metal that, in turn, is connected to the pool water. This insulation failure can be within the same flooded luminaire, within another underwater luminaire or other (non-immersed) equipment connected to the circuit, or within the circuit wiring.

c) Current-carrying parts within the flooded luminaire are supplied by a normally ungrounded low voltage, isolated source and a conductive through-water path has formed between current-carrying metal of the circuit and either earth or metal that, in turn, has a conductive path to the water in the pool. This situation can develop, for example, as described in items (i) and (ii) below.

i) The gasket of another luminaire connected to the same ungrounded circuit leaks, allowing water to form a conductive water path from the current-carrying parts within the second luminaire to the pool water in front of the that luminaire or to metal of the luminaire that, in turn, has a conductive path to the pool water.

ii) A flexible cord connected to the same ungrounded circuit becomes damaged or deteriorates as a result of continual immersion in the chemical-treated pool water. The flexible cord may be of a wet-niche or removed-for-service no-niche luminaire and located within the water-filled forming shell, water-filled space behind the luminaire, or inside the pool-water-filled conduit supplying the luminaire. Where cracking or water permeation of the cord jacket and conductor insulation occurs, water will pass into the cord and form a through-water conductive path between the current-carrying conductor and the water around the cord. This conductive water path will extend, for example, through water within the conduit to pool water behind the wet-niche or removed-for-service no-niche luminaire, which is contiguous with the water in front of the luminaire through water passage openings in the luminaire design. A path from the water around the flexible cord to the earth around the conduit (and then to the pool water) will exist if the conduit is nonmetallic and has cracked to allow water from within it to pass out of the conduit into the earth or if the conduit is metal.

FIELD HISTORY OF LOW-VOLTAGE WET-NICHE AND NO-NICHE LUMINAIRES

After researching the issue, UL believes the scenarios detailed in items c(i) and c(ii) above have not manifested in the field. An equipment-grounding conductor was believed to be necessary in the low voltage luminaire and forming shell in order to collect stray currents. If these scenarios need not be addressed, then UL believes the requirement for an equipment-grounding conductor in a low-voltage luminaire and its forming shell could be deleted. UL requests industry input on this possible revision to UL 676.

MARKINGS AND BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY WITH EXISTING FORMING SHELLS

To prevent confusion with inspection authorities, UL believes a marking on low-voltage luminaires not requiring grounding might be needed. UL suggests a simple marking such as “Low-Voltage Luminaire Not Requiring Grounding.” This would reflect the text in Sections 680.23(B)(2) of the National Electrical Code, NFPA-70-2008. Before UL attempts to develop any revisions to the marking requirements for low-voltage luminaires, UL needs industry input concerning issues involved with ungrounded low-voltage luminaires and the existing installed base of forming shells.

_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top
#6570 - 08/28/09 02:35 PM Re: UL676 - Comments Appreciated [Re: Bryan Holland]
Ron Wampler Offline
Apprentice Member

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Florida Keys
I don't feel comfortable with this. There are too many unqualified persons willing to tamper with electric, not to mention the many times that I have seen no bonding conductors running within the conduit.
I realize that listed swimming pool xfmrs. never malfunction nor are the connections cross-wired but the equipment grounding conductor in my opinion is a welcome 'redundancy'...

Top
#6571 - 08/28/09 03:06 PM Re: UL676 - Comments Appreciated [Re: Ron Wampler]
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1599
Loc: City of North Port
Thanks Ron, I greatly appreciate your comments...
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top
#6574 - 08/31/09 03:17 PM Re: UL676 - Comments Appreciated [Re: Bryan Holland]
Bryan Holland Offline

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1599
Loc: City of North Port
Here is my response:

1. The background does not describe the exact problem the EGC is causing LED luminaire circuits. Is the problem a design issue that needs to be corrected by the manufacturers or is there a real need to remove an important, redundant wiring practice?

2. The section below indicates, “These examples do not cover all possibilities.” I think it is due diligence on the part of the industry and UL to ensure ALL possibilities have been covered and seriously considered.

3. The section below does indicate remote circumstances which would result in a hazard if the EGC is not present. The removal of a safety requirement should not be made until any possibility, no matter how remote, is mediated or completely avoided by some other means. While not generally referenced for swimming pool installations, Section 250.4 of the NEC outlines the exact reasons equipment is grounded and bonded. Removal of the EGC in this circumstance would be in direct violation of this section.

4. The section below does not take into consideration future installations and improperly wired circuits. The EGC provides a redundant safety path for fault currents in the event of an improperly wired or luminaries not suitable for use in a swimming pool which could occur some point in the future. It’s just too risky to remove the EGC as a safety device.

In short, I would need to see additional data and more in-depth research that clearly shows the EGC serves NO purpose and that manufacturers are taking more steps to ensure ground-faults and other hazards are reduced in their designs.

_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

Top
#6576 - 09/02/09 11:39 AM Re: UL676 - Comments Appreciated [Re: Bryan Holland]
Ron Wampler Offline
Apprentice Member

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 43
Loc: Florida Keys
That covers my concerns. Personally I like the fiber optic systems that introduce no current to the water...In practice most underwater lighting in Florida that I have inspected is supplied with a 12v. listed pool xfmr....unfortunately with and without (varies by jurisdiction) the insulated pool bonding conductor inside the pvc raceway along with the listed 3-wire cord. Up north it is still common to supply wet-niche fixtures at 120v. with GFCI protection...LED pool lighting is common in spas and hot tubs, mostly package units and is commonly a dry-niche fixture (serviced from the outside wall surface) and often has no raceway only cord.

Top
#6696 - 11/03/09 06:09 PM Re: UL676 - Comments Appreciated [Re: Bryan Holland]
jdh Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 3
Loc: Illinois
UL676 and NEC 680.23(B) &(C) covers requirements for wet-niche and no-niche luminaires. The 680.23(B)(3) covers EGC for exposed non-current carrying metal parts for both wet-niche and no-niche luminaires.

The No-niche luminaires I have seen are totally encapsulated non-metallic and feed with a 2 conductor power cord. The encapsulated luminaire has a factory cord attached. A green wire can be seen inside the encapsulated luminaire. When I questioned the manufacturer the said that inside the luminaire is a DC rectifier and that no EGC was needed. This Luminaire is listed by ETL as conforming to UL676.

UL676 references the use of a UL379 swimming pool transformer, NEC 250.4 requires general Grounding and Bonding, however NEC 250.20(A) has an exception for less than 50-volt ac transformer systems.

I cannot find at this time, but I recall reading that LED lighting has a driver with base plate that requires grounding, and that there was a problem with early failure based on grounding.

At present I have not found a standard for evaluating a wet or dry location LED fixture, let alone swimming pool rated Luminaires.

ANSI is a not-for-profit organization that over sees censuses Standards. The “ANSI Essential Requirements” provides two options for the maintenance of American National Standards (ANS): periodic maintenance and continuous maintenance. These Standards are censuses standards for products all products. OSHA mandates standards for work places. How does a NRTL or an individual determine the standards a NEW PRODUCT (non-work place and work place) is to conform too?

I agree additional research is required prior to putting this product into the market place.

Top



Moderator:  Ruben Rocha 
Active Topics
Moving site.
by Ruben Rocha
Yesterday at 06:43 PM
2010 FBC - Significant Changes (North Port List)
by Bryan Holland
02/01/12 01:22 PM
February Meeting Announcement
by Bryan Holland
02/01/12 01:21 PM
January Meeting Minutes
by Bryan Holland
02/01/12 01:20 PM
LISTING FOR SAUNA
by Nick Sasso
01/30/12 10:33 AM
February
M Tu W Th F Sa Su
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29
Featured Member
Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 0
Forum Stats
506 Members
29 Forums
1861 Topics
8491 Posts

Max Online: 32 @ 12/14/11 08:55 PM
Uploaded Pictures
Can You Spot The Electrical Violation?
1948 Signalite Fuse
Portable Generator Grounding
2011 Florida Gulf Coast Division - Seminar
Knob and tube in industrial application
1920's Duplex Radio Outlet
Random Gallery Image

Upcoming events