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#6906 - 03/18/10 11:04 AM GEC
Paul J Cameron Offline
Mechanic Member
***

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Pasco County Florida
Does everyone use 300.5 for depth of GEC? Example between 2 ground rods away from the building.
_________________________
Paul Cameron
Chief Electrical Inspector
Pasco County
Past President IAEI Suncoast



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#6907 - 03/18/10 02:33 PM Re: GEC [Re: Paul J Cameron]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: West Palm Beach
Paul,

I do. Most people probably don't understand your question because that is one of the least enforced codes in Florida.

If they can't bury the GEC to code, then I make them strap it to the side of the building, from one ground rod to the next, and I consider that protected.

Throwing some dirt, cypress mulch, or pine bark on top of the conductor is not adequate, IMHO. In fact it is pretty lame. wooza

_________________________

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#6908 - 03/18/10 02:52 PM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
psnorthrup Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Plant City
Paul I also use the requirements of 300.5(D) as well as the requirements of 250.64(B)

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#6909 - 03/18/10 03:02 PM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
gfretwell
Unregistered


Exhibit 250.25 in the handbook would be deceiving then wouldn't it?(ref 250.56)
Some might even question whether 300.5 actually applies to a single conductor

Quote:
300.5(A) Minimum Cover Requirements. Direct-buried cable or conduit or other raceways shall be installed to meet the minimum cover requirements of Table 300.5.


Is a single conductor a "cable"?
In that regard 300.5 is wrong because we also use it for USE
Do you apply column 1? (24")
Has anyone actually put city hubs on the rod and run RNC between them?

It is a great question if the rod is not right next to the building.

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#6910 - 03/18/10 03:58 PM Re: GEC [Re: ]
Bryan Holland Online   shocked

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1599
Loc: City of North Port
I completely agree the GEc needs to be rptoected from physical damage and 300.5 seems to be a resonable section to reference and use a a guide for determining what would be considered protected, however, attempts to get language into the NEC regarding this topic has failed the last three code cycles. Here are a few from the 2008 code cycle:

Quote:
5-182 Log #99 NEC-P05 Final Action: Reject
(250.64(B))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Brian Kincaid, Swartz Creek, MI
Recommendation: Add a new last sentence to this paragraph to read as
follows:
Where run away from the surface of a building or structure for connection to
a grounding electrode, unprotected grounding electrode conductors shall be run
below grade level.
Substantiation: There were proposals during the last cycle to prevent
grounding electrode conductors from being run exposed across the surface of
the ground where they can easily be damaged. Presently, there is no rule
against running grounding electrode conductors across the surface of the earth.
The depth of burial seemed to be an issue, so why not omit the depth and just
require the cable to be placed below the surface of the earth when run away
from a building or structure. Perhaps, this will be acceptable so grounding
electrode wires will be installed less likely to be damaged, or exposed along
the ground surface where they pose a tripping hazard.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: Section 250.64(B) adequately covers the protection
requirements.
Number Eligible to Vote: 15
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 15
____________________________________________________________
5-183 Log #101 NEC-P05 Final Action: Reject
(250.64(B))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Justin Ptak, Wyandotte, MI
Recommendation: Add a new last sentence to this paragraph to read as
follows:
“A grounding electrode conductor run away from a building or structure a
distance of more than 600 mm (1 ft) shall be installed beneath a concrete or
similar cover or buried to a depth of not less than 200 mm (4 in.)”
Substantiation: I can’t understand why there is opposition to running a
conductor as important as a grounding electrode conductor under the surface of
the earth so it cannot be damaged. All too often the exposed cable is run along
the surface of the earth to make connection to a grounding electrode. The 600
mm distance from the building or structure was included to take care of those
situations where the electrode is installed close to the building or structure.
Granted the length of the grounding electrode conductor should be as short as
possible for best performance, but a damaged grounding electrode conductor
certainly has impaired performance.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: Section 250.64(B) adequately covers the protection
requirements.
Number Eligible to Vote: 15
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 15
5-185 Log #972 NEC-P05 Final Action: Reject
(250.64(B))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Daniel Leaf, Seneca, SC
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
Where exposed: A grounding electrode conductor or its enclosure shall be
securely supported and f astened in place to the surface on which it is carried
except where fished between access points where concealed in finished
buildings or structures where supporting and fastening is impractical. A 4 6
AWG or larger copper or aluminum conductor shall be protected if exposed to
severe physical damage. A 6 AWG or larger grounding conductor that is free
from exposure not exposed to physical damage shall be permitted to run along
the surface of the building or structure without being enclosed in a raceway or
cable armor metal covering or protection where it is securely supported and
fastened in place to the construction or it shall be permitted to be installed in
any approved raceway, subject to the provisions of the raceway article .
Otherwise, it shall be rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid
nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing , or cable armor. Grounding
electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be in rigid metal conduit,
intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing
or cable armor except that electrical; metallic tubing and rigid nonmetallic
conduit shall be permitted where not subject to physical damage. An
unprotected grounding electrode conductor that is directly buried in the earth
for a distance of more than 600 mm (2 ft) shall be installed at a depth of not
less than 450 mm (18 in.) below grade.
Substantiation: “Fastened” does not assure support if distance between
fastenings is great. Allowance should be made for fishing. Conductors larger
than 6 AWG should also be protected if subject to damage. Structures which
are not “buildings” should be included for the 6 AWG conductor. “Metal
covering or protection” is not specific re: type, thickness, etc. If a 6 AWG can
be run without covering or protection installation in any suitable raceway
should be permitted; it is more than no protection or covering and may be
desirable for esthetics or added protection. A directly buried 6 AWG conductor
(maximum for made electrodes) run for extended lengths without concrete slab
or protection should warrant a depth requirement since Table 300.5 may be
interpreted as not applicable to grounding electrode conductors.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: See panel action and statement on Comment 5-116 (Log
No. 372) in the 2004 NEC ROC.
In addition, there is no substantiation for an 18 in. below grade requirement.
Number Eligible to Vote: 15
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 15
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#6911 - 03/18/10 04:56 PM Re: GEC [Re: Bryan Holland]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: West Palm Beach
Bryan I think that the reason those proposals would not pass is because there is too much language, and it is too confusing. In reality we only need to add one last sentence (underlined below):



250.64 Grounding Electrode Conductor Installation.
Grounding electrode conductors shall be installed as specified in 250.64(A) through (F).

(A) Aluminum or Copper-Clad Aluminum Conductors. Bare aluminum or copper-clad aluminum grounding conductors shall not be used where in direct contact with masonry or the earth or where subject to corrosive conditions. Where used outside, aluminum or copper-clad aluminum grounding conductors shall not be terminated within 450 mm (18 in.) of the earth.

(B) Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage. Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it is carried. A 4 AWG or larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor shall be protected where exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection where it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing, or cable armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing, or cable armor.

(C) Continuous. Grounding electrode conductor(s) shall be installed in one continuous length without a splice or joint except as permitted in (1) through (4):

(1) Splicing shall be permitted only by irreversible compression-type connectors listed as grounding and bonding equipment or by the exothermic welding process.

(2) Sections of busbars shall be permitted to be connected together to form a grounding electrode conductor.

(3) Bonding jumper(s) from grounding electrode(s) and grounding electrode conductor(s) shall be permitted to be connected to an aluminum or copper busbar not less than 6 mm × 50 mm (¼ in. × 2 in.). The busbar shall be securely fastened and shall be installed in an accessible location. Connections shall be made by a listed connector or by the exothermic welding process.

(4) Where aluminum busbars are used, the installation shall comply with 250.64(A).

(D) Grounding Electrode Conductor Taps. Where a service consists of more than a single enclosure as permitted in 230.71(A), it shall be permitted to connect taps to the common grounding electrode conductor. Each such tap conductor shall extend to the inside of each such enclosure. The common grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.66, based on the sum of the circular mil area of the largest ungrounded service entrance conductors. Where more than one set of service entrance conductors as permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 2 connect directly to a service drop or lateral, the common grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.66 Note 1. The tap conductors shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with the grounding electrode conductors specified in 250.66 for the largest conductor serving the respective enclosures. The tap conductors shall be connected to the common grounding electrode conductor in such a manner that the common grounding electrode conductor remains without a splice or joint.

(E) Enclosures for Grounding Electrode Conductors. Ferrous metal enclosures for grounding electrode conductors shall be electrically continuous from the point of attachment to cabinets or equipment to the grounding electrode and shall be securely fastened to the ground clamp or fitting. Nonferrous metal enclosures shall not be required to be electrically continuous. Ferrous metal enclosures that are not physically continuous from cabinets or equipment to the grounding electrode shall be made electrically continuous by bonding each end of the raceway or enclosure to the grounding electrode conductor. Bonding shall apply at each end and to all intervening ferrous raceways, boxes, and enclosures between the service equipment and the grounding electrode. The bonding jumper for a grounding electrode conductor raceway or cable armor shall be the same size as, or larger than, the required enclosed grounding electrode conductor. Where a raceway is used as protection for a grounding electrode conductor, the installation shall comply with the requirements of the appropriate raceway article.

(F) To Electrode(s). A grounding electrode conductor shall be permitted to be run to any convenient grounding electrode available in the grounding electrode system, or to one or more grounding electrode(s) individually, or to the aluminum or copper busbar as permitted in 250.64(C). The grounding electrode conductor shall be sized for the largest grounding electrode conductor required among all the electrodes connected to it. Where the grouding electrode conductor is run below grade, it shall comply with the minimum burial depth per Table 300.5.




Reason:

There is confusion in the industry as to the required depth of the conductor, considering that the required depth of a ground ring is 30". So it is odd that the "conductor" run between electrodes, which would not normally carry current, could be less than that amount.

"Ground Ring. The ground ring shall be buried at a depth below the earth’s surface of not less than 750 mm (30 in.)."



SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
_________________________

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#6912 - 03/18/10 07:40 PM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
Mike Timpanaro Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1101
Loc: Ocklawaha FL.
There us no requirement in the NEC for the GEC to comply with 300.5 Being that this state has a uniform code and a process for code amendments, there should be no jurisdiction or inspector that would require more or something different than the code itself.

90.1(b)
Quote:
This code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therwith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard...etc.


Maybe we should read Charlie's rule for Reading the NEC:
The idea is that after all...the code says exactly what it should say. cry
_________________________
Michael J Timpanaro
Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor
Florida




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#6913 - 03/18/10 08:12 PM Re: GEC [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: West Palm Beach
Mike, I believe that there is a minimum cover requirement for the grounding electrode conductor.

1) GEC is a conductor.
2) The table covers installations between "0 to 600 Volts"




_________________________

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#6914 - 03/18/10 09:40 PM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
gfretwell
Unregistered


Maybe he is reading the actual rule that references the table. The GEC is not a cable or conduit or other raceway(s)

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#6915 - 03/19/10 12:59 AM Re: GEC [Re: ]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1438
Loc: West Palm Beach
The grounding electrode conductor is a conductor and the table applies if one chooses to bury it. What Mike pointed out is not specific to the table.

_________________________

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