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#6947 - 03/23/10 09:14 PM Re: GEC [Re: COTInspector]
COTInspector Offline
Mechanic Member
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Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 132
Loc: Tampa, Florida
My 2 cents;
Secure it to the structure or bury it.
Am going to require the the EC to show how deep it is buried? No
Id like to see the responce from a formal intrepertation if you have time to request one Mike.

IMHO
Neal Burdick


Edited by COTInspector (03/23/10 09:15 PM)

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#6948 - 03/23/10 10:43 PM Re: GEC [Re: COTInspector]
Nick Sasso Offline

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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
If everyone is going to talk about a new topic, it would be good to start it in a new post.


Edited by Nick Sasso (03/23/10 10:44 PM)
_________________________

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#6949 - 03/24/10 08:08 AM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
Bryan Holland Online   shocked

Secretary
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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
I can tell you right now that we will not be getting a formal interpretation from the NFPA. Even if they accepted the request, it would take months. If you go to the NFPA website, I believe there have only been 4 or 5 Formal Interps for the NEC since 1985 or something like that.

The best bet is to get a panel statement. This is an informal statement by a member of the CMP in question. These are more frequent, but hold the same weight as the Building Officials Association of Florida informal interpretations.

I have submitted the question to the Suncoast Division for the code panelist question and answer session at the Chapter Meeting and Seminar in May. Perhaps we will get something fruitful from that.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#6950 - 03/24/10 09:44 AM Re: GEC [Re: Bryan Holland]
psnorthrup Offline
Mechanic Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Plant City
Mark Ode is supposed to be at the grounding seminar this Saturday , John Minick is supposed to be there too, Mark is an alternate to CMP3 which is where article 300 is. there may be some good opinions there

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#6951 - 03/24/10 10:56 AM Re: GEC [Re: psnorthrup]
Paul J Cameron Offline
Mechanic Member
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Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 412
Loc: Pasco County Florida
AS a side note we still have 12 seats available for this Saturday's grounding seminar. Let me know by email if your interested. I am glad to see this turned into a lively debate and I think we all agree it has to be buried to be protected but how to enforce the depth.
_________________________
Paul Cameron
Chief Electrical Inspector
Pasco County
Past President IAEI Suncoast



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#6952 - 03/24/10 11:01 AM Re: GEC [Re: ]
Paul J Cameron Offline
Mechanic Member
***

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 412
Loc: Pasco County Florida
Gfretwell, how's this:
Quote:
I like Nick's proposal about adding the sentence to 250.64 (F) or maybe a second paragraph in 250.64 (B) starting with where buried...

_________________________
Paul Cameron
Chief Electrical Inspector
Pasco County
Past President IAEI Suncoast



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#6953 - 03/24/10 11:47 AM Re: GEC [Re: Paul J Cameron]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
You can require that GEC be in pipe if it is not run along side the building. Maybe just do that. It would be a bit** to bond if they used metal and not pvc.

It will be nice to get those guys opinions also, but I have seen those code panelists change their opinion before, like flipping a light switch.



Edited by Nick Sasso (03/24/10 11:48 AM)
_________________________

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#6954 - 03/24/10 11:50 AM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
Securing and Protection Against Physical Damage. Where exposed, a grounding electrode conductor or its enclosure shall be securely fastened to the surface on which it is carried. A 4 AWG or larger copper or aluminum grounding electrode conductor shall be protected where exposed to physical damage. A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection where it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing, or cable armor. Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, electrical metallic tubing, or cable armor.
_________________________

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#6955 - 03/24/10 12:55 PM Re: GEC [Re: Nick Sasso]
gfretwell
Unregistered


I assume we are all thinking about the sleeve being PVC. As Nick says, it will be tough to put city hubs on the rods for a RMC/IMC (you better be a good measurer/rod driver) and EMT is a waste of time underground. It would be red dust in a year or two.
I guess the question is whether a #4 solid running exposed along the surface of the stucco is more vulnerable than being 6" below grade against the building.

Don't forget to factor in theft wink

If the second rod was 6' away from the house, not next to it, I would be a lot more worried about the GEC getting damaged.

I was also serious about digging a trench below the footing next to the house. Isn't that going to compromise the compaction?

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#6956 - 03/24/10 01:10 PM Re: GEC [Re: ]
gfretwell
Unregistered


BTW "cable armor"???

Table 300.5 Column 1 would still have you down 24"

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