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#7795 - 09/27/10 11:27 AM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
inspector32513 Offline
Lynn Adams

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Pensacola, FL
Think of a "plastic" pool or spa. Throw a radio with a two wire cord in the water. The GFCI will only see an increase in crrent flow from hot to neutral. IT WILL NOT TRIP. Now, holding the hand rail that is bonded, step into the water that is energized by the radio. The GFCI will trip. But we have exposed the person to great potential shock hazard.
With some kind of bonding of the pool water to the ground system the GFCI will trip and eliminate the hazard before that persond walkq down into the pool while holding the metal hand rail.
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Lynn Adams
Chief Electrical Inspector, Escambia County
IAEI_Panhandle Division

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#7798 - 09/27/10 01:49 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Bryan Holland Online   shocked

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
The bonding required in 680.26 does not serve the purpose of clearing unintentional ground-faults.

The code provides "other" means to protect individuals from other hazards.
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#7799 - 09/27/10 04:52 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
gfretwell
Unregistered


I think the point is the GFCI is going to protect the user but it needs a ground source to operate. Grounding the water will work for that without actually requiring the user to be in the fault circuit.

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#7800 - 09/27/10 05:40 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Mike Timpanaro Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1104
Loc: Ocklawaha FL.
Nick.....maybe you should tell everyone about my little pool/power/GFCI demonstration.
_________________________
Michael J Timpanaro
Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor
Florida




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#7801 - 09/27/10 08:33 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
Mike, I'm not sure what demonstration you are talking about. There are so many. You mean when you threw the live cord into the water? And then stuck out your tongue and touched the water with your tongue when the live cord was in the water, and then drank the water with the cord in it? You mean that presentation??????

WARNING - DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME. MIKE IS A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL AND PLAYING WITH ELECTRICITY CAN GET YOU KILLED.

I think we should make a video of it and put it on You Tube.....with a disclaimer. Or maybe just make the video for the forum, forget You Tube. Some little kid will see it and God only knows.



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#7802 - 09/28/10 07:35 AM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Mike Timpanaro Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
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Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 1104
Loc: Ocklawaha FL.
Yep....that's the one. But in addition don't forget the 120 volt extention cord that I put into the glass of water and drank the water with the live cord in it.....was plugged into a GFCI receptacle, and it didn't trip!
_________________________
Michael J Timpanaro
Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor
Florida




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#7803 - 09/28/10 11:40 AM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Bryan Holland Online   shocked

Secretary
*****

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
Electricity is such a funny thing. The smallest little fault can result in a huge explosion yet a major hazard can go unnoticed or uncorrected for years.

I guess the best comparison is lightning. It doesn't kill everyone it stikes. It doesn't burn down every building and doesn't always destroy all the electronics in a struck building.

Its random.

Fortunately, we really don't have to know the extent of the potential hazard, what the hazard may be, or how the hazard will effect the structure or a person. We just have to know what the code reuqires and enusre its complied with.
_________________________
Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#7804 - 09/28/10 04:14 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
gfretwell
Unregistered


You mitigate the danger quite a bit by having the grounded and ungrounded conductors in the water, close together. That is the primary fault path.
It becomes a lot more dangerous if you only have the ungrounded conductor in the water.

BTW I bet you used a 2 wire cord. If you have a 3 wire extension cord the GFCI will trip when there is any ionization of the water at all, a given if it is pool water.

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#7805 - 09/28/10 06:46 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
****

Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
If you are talking about Mike's demonstration it was a 3-wire cord. The G.F.C.I. does not trip.


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#7806 - 09/28/10 10:49 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ron Wampler]
Nick Sasso Offline

Post-A-Holic Member
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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
I can show everybody. Here is a Mike Timpanero in action, as he is putting on the seminar:



And here is Mike Timpanero drinking electrified water:



And here is a close-up:



I will let Mike explain further.

WARNING - DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME. MIKE IS A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL AND PLAYING WITH ELECTRICITY CAN GET YOU KILLED.


Edited by Nick Sasso (09/29/10 12:41 AM)
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