Pool Water Bonding - IAEI Florida Chapter

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#7122 - 04/15/10 01:03 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
gfretwell Unregistered	680.26(C) says ... Quote: Pool Water. An intentional bond of a minimum conductive surface area of 5806 mm2 (9 in.2) shall be installed in contact with the pool water. This bond shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B) . ... and 680.26(B)(1) says "Conductive Pool Shells", so I think this is a compliant means of bonding the water.
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#7129 - 04/15/10 05:20 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
Ruben Rocha Senior Member Registered: 05/24/00 Posts: 767	I agree with you Mike. And until this post I never noticed this change. I guess because it is within the other bonding requirement items mentioned for equipment but kinda a detached paragraph. Maybe the correlating committee will move it where it should be. Someday. Edited by Ruben Rocha (04/15/10 05:29 PM)
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#7130 - 04/15/10 05:30 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ruben Rocha]
Ruben Rocha Senior Member Registered: 05/24/00 Posts: 767	Sine this is really a 2008 nec item I will move this topic from the 2005 archived forum to the 2008 nec forum.
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#7134 - 04/15/10 09:51 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ruben Rocha]
gfretwell Unregistered	I see nothing in 690.26(C) that says "metal". 680.26(C) says bonding "shall be permitted to consist of parts that are required to be bonded in 680.26(B)". Since the conductive pool shell is required to be bonded in 680.26(B)(1) isn't it one of the "permitted parts"?
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#7137 - 04/16/10 01:45 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: ]
Mike Timpanaro Post-A-Holic Member Registered: 04/10/01 Posts: 1104 Loc: Ocklawaha FL.	Plastic is not conductive. (3) Metallic Components. All metallic parts of the pool structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in 680.26(B)(1)(a), shall be bonded. Where reinforcing steel is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, the reinforcing steel shall not be required to be bonded. (4) Underwater Lighting. All metal forming shells and mounting brackets of no-niche luminaires shall be bonded. Exception: Listed low-voltage lighting systems with nonmetallic forming shells shall not require bonding. (5) Metal Fittings. All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding. (6) Electrical Equipment. Metal parts of electrical equipment associated with the pool water circulating system, including pump motors and metal parts of equipment associated with pool covers, including electric motors, shall be bonded. _________________________ Michael J Timpanaro Inspector/Plans Examiner/CEU Instructor Florida
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#7139 - 04/16/10 04:01 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
psnorthrup Mechanic Member Registered: 04/23/07 Posts: 115 Loc: Plant City	Ruben; I wouldn't look for the TCC to go too near this anytime in the near future, this was a very unpopular change, If you remember it was a proposal for the 2005 cycle, and was rejected, if you remember,when that proposal was read at the Southern Section meeting, it got a big laugh when Mark Ode spoke against it,________________________________________________________________ 17-167 Log #1888 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept ( 680.26(B)(6) ) ________________________________________________________________ Submitter: Frederic P. Hartwell, Hartwell Electrical Services, Inc. Comment on Proposal No: 17-120 Recommendation: The proposal should be rejected. Substantiation: Water cannot be bonded. Suffice it to say that this proposal produced the highest reading on the laugh meter at the IAEI annual meeting, as a nationally recognized NEC expert described the evident futility of making such connections using hydraulically crimped connectors (“but the water just oozed out”) or exothermic welding (“but the water extinguished the fuse”) etc. Metal parts can and should be bonded to provide an equipotential plane in
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#7140 - 04/16/10 07:18 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Ruben Rocha]
Raymfl Apprentice Member Registered: 11/05/07 Posts: 32 Loc: Seminole Co, FL	Originally Posted By: Ruben Rocha Humm??? outdoor spa. If it was a spa pack (all electric)usually the heater element is in a short raceway and it is bonded from the factory. Or was this a field built spa? Sorry, couldn't get back to reply. The spa was a packaged unit without heat at inspection. Did not do the last inspection to see how the bond was resolved. Usually the tube that houses the element would be large enough to be used as the bond.
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#7142 - 04/16/10 07:34 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: psnorthrup]
Ruben Rocha Senior Member Registered: 05/24/00 Posts: 767	Originally Posted By: psnorthrup Ruben; I wouldn't look for the TCC to go too near this anytime in the near future, this was a very unpopular change, If you remember it was a proposal for the 2005 cycle, and was rejected, if you remember,when that proposal was read at the Southern Section meeting, it got a big laugh when Mark Ode spoke against it,________________________________________________________________ 17-167 Log #1888 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept ( 680.26(B)(6) ) ________________________________________________________________ Submitter: Frederic P. Hartwell, Hartwell Electrical Services, Inc. Comment on Proposal No: 17-120 Recommendation: The proposal should be rejected. Substantiation: Water cannot be bonded. Suffice it to say that this proposal produced the highest reading on the laugh meter at the IAEI annual meeting, as a nationally recognized NEC expert described the evident futility of making such connections using hydraulically crimped connectors (“but the water just oozed out”) or exothermic welding (“but the water extinguished the fuse”) etc. Metal parts can and should be bonded to provide an equipotential plane in Right or wrong. ridiculous or not it is in print now! So the AHJ has no choice but to enforce the requirement. So maybe the TCC will amend or change it. Remember the seu temp rating issue a few cycles back? It was a oversight but we lived with it for years.
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#7143 - 04/17/10 03:22 AM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: Mike Timpanaro]
gfretwell Unregistered	I was referring to this Quote: It doesn't matter what the pool shell or deck is made of. Conductive or non-conductive, the water still needs to be bonded. I was speaking to a concrete pool. Sorry for any confusion/
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#7150 - 04/19/10 12:50 PM Re: Pool Water Bonding [Re: ]
Ron Wampler Apprentice Member Registered: 08/20/08 Posts: 43 Loc: Florida Keys	Yes. I will enforce it. Yes I have enforced other recalled sections...especially the one on depth and spacing of underground raceways and conductors...We all try to do our tasks even NFPA...
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