Can any one give me substantiation (rhyme and verse) that a solar (CV) contractor can not hook the inverter to an electrical panel.During the Building Officials Association of Florida conference in Tampa we were given that information and I don't see it in any of the verbage from CILB or FS. How many are requiring both and EC and CV on a solar permit?

"Solar" is a type of contractor that is covered under CILB (Construction Industry Licensing Board) and here is the definition:

489.105 Definitions.--As used in this part:
(o) "Solar contractor" means a contractor whose services consist of the installation, alteration, repair, maintenance, relocation, or replacement of solar panels for potable solar water heating systems, swimming pool solar heating systems, and photovoltaic systems and any appurtenances, apparatus, or equipment used in connection therewith, whether public, private, or otherwise, regardless of use. A contractor, certified or registered pursuant to the provisions of this chapter, is not required to become a certified or registered solar contractor or to contract with a solar contractor in order to provide any services enumerated in this paragraph that are within the scope of the services such contractors may render under this part.

Hence, a solar contractor isn't even covered under the ECLB, which would be Chapter 489 Part II. Solar is under 489 Part I. So they are not allowed to make electrical connections.

I suppose for more information you can write to ECLB or CILB and ask for a declaratory statement. But it seems clear already just based upon what statute they fall under.

Nick, This is the part I am having a hard time with. The electrical panel would be equipment used in connection therewith.
The instructor at the Building Officials Association of Florida solar seminar was very adament about a CV contractor not hooking up to the electrical panel.

I think you would have a valid argument if the solar contractor was listed in 489 Part II. But he is listed in 489 Part I. By the very nature of the law whereby the solar contractor is created, he cannot tie into an electrical panel anymore than a plumber, roofer, or general contractor.

See the forest through the trees.

Hope this helps.

Is that kinda like thinking outside of the box??
Then how about the mechanical contractor licensed by the same section is allowed to do electrical work on the load side of the disconnect and also install the disconnect??

No, I'm saying that it can't encompass electrical no matter what it says in 489 I, since electrical is 489 II. They did it that way on purpose.

If the Association of Certain Building Officials in Florida is saying that you need an EC and a solar contractor on a solar permit then I agree with them. But what about wind speed? I assume that it incidental to the EC scope of work and you don't need a GC on that permit.

I purposely did not bring up the mechanical, but you agree, it is only the "load" side of a disconnect they can hook up to.

The mechanical issue is a sore spot for some.
Like Mel Hill in St. Pete.
I have read the exemption for them years ago so I can't recall the exact wording but I have also been told if they are replacing the same unit they are allowed to remake the connection on the load side of the disconnect.

The argument is,it will never be the same unit.
They may replace a three ton unit with a three ton unit.
But with the newer seer ratings.
Overcurrent ratings may have changed.
When this started the big issue was replacing say a three ton straight a/c unit with a heatpump unit.
The big change was the air handler.
No longer needed a 10 or 15kw heat strip.
It was downsized to a 5kw heat strip
Then the condenser unit on the outside with lower pressure ratings also had a lower FLA rating.

I think slicing these things with such a sharp knife is why some people lose respect for the system. You are telling a guy who hooked up a solar array, inverters and a number of other "electrical" things but you are telling him he is not qualified to pop in a breaker and hook up 3 wires. This is a glitch in the law in my opinion.
Do you think the guy the EC sends out for such a small job would even understand what was on the other end of those wires?
Would he know this was a back feed and it needed a clip? Things like that. I have to believe the solar guy would be taught things like this as part of his certification.

Interesting thought and probably more true than most would think.
Unless the electrician is well versed on the equipment. He may do more harm than good.

I think the "fix" is to assure solar contractors understand the principles of making the grid tie ... if it is not already part of that training.

Paul,
Maybe this will help.

SOLAR ELECTRICAL CONTRACTING
Who can install residential and commercial PV systems in Florida?
“PV Systems.. are primarily electrical in nature” – ECLB - May 2004
Draft Summary 8/18/2009

RESIDENTIAL PV SYSTEMS:
Residential Defined as: "one family, two family, or three family residences not exceeding two stories in height" see 61G4-15.021

ECLB
The license category(s) under the ECLB allowed to contract or install residential PV systems is the CEC "Certified Unlimited Electrical Contractor" and the registered EC license. See minutes of the May 2008 combined ECLB/CILB meeting.
Also From Executive Summary of the ECLB meeting May 2004
"After a review of F.S. 489 part I & II, Board concluded that all components of photovoltaic systems are within the scope of, and can be completed by electrical contractors."

Roof attachments are considered to be components of a PV system and are within the scope of the EC. Contrary to a report issued by FLASEIA/FLASEREF subcontracting for the roof attachments is not currently and has never been a requirement.

CILB
The only license category under the CILB allowed to install residential PV systems is the CV license, this license was created in 1992 in conjunction with the ECLB, the solar electrical scope of the license is limited to the PV supply side "From the collector to the inverter on a residential project" -see minutes of the May 2008 combined ECLB/CILB meeting, FS 489.113(3)(f) & 61G4-15.021.

The CV must hire an electrical contractor on all residential projects to install the inverter output circuit (ac circuit wiring) from the ac side of the inverter to the main supply panel or line side tap.

Based on this definition the CV is not allowed to install the ac circuit wiring on dc to ac micro-inverters (i.e. enphase) since the inverters are individually connected to each other with ac circuit wiring (usually 120/240 or 208 Vac) under the PV collectors, and the ac circuit wiring must be connected from inverter to inverter before the PV collectors are installed on a flush roof mounted installation.

The CV is also not allowed under the same definition to install the ac circuit wiring on ac PV Collectors – All dc supply side wiring along with the inverter is contained within the collector itself and the collector output is usually 120/240 or 208 Vac. See (ac) module section of NEC 690.6

COMMERCIAL PV SYSTEMS:
Commercial Defined as: other than “one family, two family, or three family residences not exceeding two stories in height"

ECLB
The only license category(s) under the ECLB allowed to contract or install commercial PV systems is the CEC "Certified Unlimited Electrical Contractor" and the registered EC license.

CILB
As it stands currently there is no license category under the CILB which is allowed to contract, act as prime contractor (where the majority of the work performed is limited to solar electrical contracting only), or install commercial PV systems. FS 489.113

Neal Burdick
COT Inspector II

Doesn't need one per 690.64(B)(6)

Thanks Neil, greatly appreciated.

Interesting, but it does make sense if this is a grid tie system where the inverter will not put out if it doesn't see the utility.

Assuming everything is working correctly.
We know solar equipment never breaks because they never include "maintenance" in those projections of pay back period.