Greetings to all from beautiful downtown Hudson FL.

Members about the state are receiving emails advertising ECLB approved on line courses sponsored by the IAEI-IO in Texas. This is a very touchy and delicate issue between the Florida Chapter IAEI and the IAEI-IO. The problem reared its ugly head last Thursday 08/12 with the mass emailing to Florida Chapter members. Your Chapter President and Secretary are aware of it. They are gathering necessary information and Board of Directors members' opinions prior to confronting the IO about this issue.

There was a lively discussion about this last Thursday at the Suncoast Division monthly meeting. As a former Chapter Secretary who helped implement CE courses with the BCAIB and ECLB in 1993-95, I gave the attendees a brief historical back ground as to why the IO forced the Chapter into the CE business.

CE seminars and activity is the crux of major income for the 9 Divisions as well as for the Chapter itself. Now that a person can sit down at home and get their 14 required CE hours, will we ever see them again. On line courses should never have been allowed by the ECLB. They have already drastically cut into seminar attendance around the state. I personally know of 6 contractors in the Tampa Bay area who take all their required courses on line, using the flimsy excuse of not wanting to sit in a boring class room for 8 hours. Give me a break now ! An on line course cannot and never will be able to provide the kind of intimate contact between an instructor and the pupil, that is crucial to understanding all codes, not just the NECode. What effect has this had upon our inspection agencies, when red tags are issued and the contractor claims ignorance because he or she was not willing to sacrifice some time to get quality exposure to quality presentions. And believe thee me, all of the Florida Chapter's Divisions and the Chapter go out of their way to present quality seminars with top notch presentators.

If any one has any questions about these on line CE courses by the IO, please direct your concerns to your Division Officers and the Chapter BOD representative from your Division. For those IAEI members that are not affiliated with a Division, please contact your Chapter President or Secretary.

The NECode is already a complex publication. And each code cycle makes it all the more complex. Contractors as well as inspectors must see their way clear to avail themselves of seminars that will enlighten their walk through the NECode. This is a very important example of ignorance not being a valid excuse for failure (i.e.- red tags).

Respectfully,

Dick Widera
Secretary
Suncoast Division IAEI

Well said, Mr. Widera!!

Dick; I agree with you, IO should leave Courses to the Chapters

Well said D.W.

If this exposes more electrical professionals to the IAEI and what we have to offer, then I think it is a good thing.

If this provides quality education and training to more electrical professionals then the IAEI Florida Chapter and Divisions are currently reaching, then I think it is a good thing.

If Florida electrical professionals choose this form of education over or in lieu of the education being provided by the Chapter and its Divisions, then we need to come up with a better product, or a better platform, or some other incentive and reason why they should choose us over anyone else.

I am a supporter of and advocate for ANY organization that is working to better the electrical industry here in Florida, be it the IAEI, ECF, Building Officials Association of Florida, ICC, and many others.

Bryan; I agree with some of what you said, but on the other hand, it seems that the IO is in competition with the chapters , case in point ; when I was Sec/Treas. of the South Carolina Chapter, the IO was scheduling one day seminars at the same time as our state meeting and workshop,which because of price and location, juristictions were opting to send their inspectors there instead of the three day workshop. I do understand the the IO needs to make money to operate, and it has become so expensive to do so, that they need to find ways to "feed the Bear", but not in competition with the state and local chapters and divisions, I still maintain that the IO needs to decide whether it is a business organization or a membership organization first.

I think some of the attractiveness of online courses is simply scheduling. A seminar is hard scheduled. Online courses can be done any time.
I know, some of the modules, like law and ADA are not given very often and if you miss them, you aren't getting them.
That was what got me to the online provider in the first place.

: opinion on
Seminars are also a hit or miss thing. If someone like Jim Pauley is doing it I will skip a family reunion to go but there are a few other road show presenters that I don't care if I ever see again.
: opinion off
Maybe I just caught them on a bad day.

Well I for one think the chapter/divisions should consider online courses.
Just because it is happening in the industry.
Or maybe a collaboration between the IO and chapter/divisions.
Say for example if the IO develops a online course in the territory of a section/chapter/division. then some monetary value is passed to same.
At least the IO will not be in competition with them.
And everyone benefits.

This in no way supports that online courses are better. But it is the way things are today.

I will say I have used them on occasion. Only because I could not find a course to meet the hours I needed without driving a few hours somewhere. Which did not conflict with work hours.

Also there is not always a live course available when it is needed.

If enough members so desire that the Chapter initiate on line CE courses, then of course the BOD should give serious thought to their development. If this is the wave of the future, then so be it. In the mean time, face to face interaction between teacher and student is still the most effective manner to get across the many complexities of the NECode.

I would like to point out that certified course instructors are available about the state through the various divisions. It would not take very much to schedule somebody if a member was short an hour or two. I have done this many times in the past when I was Chapter Secretary.

I cannot recall how many times I went one on one with a member when I was working for A Randy's Electric. We would go upstairs into the conference room and have at it. I went to Naples several times to give seminars to the Florida Sign Association. I did presentations several times on the Saturday of Chapter Annual meetings to accomodate members. The grand Poo Bah though was on Saturday August 31, 1998, the very last day of the licensing cycle. I gave a 14 hour Banzai course at Plant City for 35 contractors and inspectors. The next day I had to enter all the data into the DBPR computer system. I talked myself hoarse that day, BUT THERE were 35 happy procrastinators who made it by the skin of their teeth timewise.

So the point is if someone needs some extra help in getting a couple of hours of CE, then the Chapter is ready to meet their needs.

Dick W.

Agreed the chapter/ divisions have always looked out for ceu requirements for contractor/inspector's alike on the cycle that they are needed..
But human nature says wait till the last moment to get them.
After the fact. This is not the fault of the chapter or Division but the individual.
Knowing that it is a user problem does not rectify the issue.
Online courses are there and the masses will migrate to them if needed.
At the last moment of course.

I am just being the devil's advocate I agree with you. But in today's economy I don't think you will find contractors or even building departments that allow inspectors that will let people attend a class versus just going online.

A example would be:
Oh, I need 2 hours of ADA.
I can get it online for 30 bucks or you can send me all day to a class out of town, and pay my expenses.
I won't be performing any inspections that day either.

What do you think the city manager would decide.

Sad, but I think a true example in today's world.

Mr. Widera are the classes you are refering to from "PACE PDH", co-sponsered by the IAEI?
I see that Keith Loftland is listed as the instructor for the NEC update classes for "PACE".
I can give some additional backround information on that arrangement if anyone is interested.
As a Chapter we need to do a better job with our IAEI live seminars, classes with nationally reconized instructors would be a good place to start, I know they are not always available but I think they draw the larger crowds.
I personally do not think the internet classes are worth the money they cost. I agree with Mr. Widera nothing beats a good live instructor.
I think the ECF has almost 40 contractors signed up for their "last chance" 14 hour CE program this Friday and Saturday
Most contractors I know take CEU's online because they want the easy way out, some CE providers advertise "14 hours of credit in 8 hours"(I have received these fliers). I have taken several on line courses and I could have put anyone in front of the computer to do the classes for me as some I know do (no accountability). If this is the future then maybe the Florida Chapter needs to step up and start developing some of these courses to keep up with the market demand.


Neal Burdick
COT Construction Inspector II

That's what I am saying Neal.
Sad, but complaining about poor attendance and how much better a live class is will not fix the issue.
As long as the ECLB and BCAB accepts online courses they will draw attendees.
And it will probably increase in time.
If we don't find a way to keep up with what the industry want's we will be left behind. With nothing.

Please see the attached document for an update on this matter.

Ladies, Gentlemen, Brethern all;

The latest and greatest news about this brouhaha is that the IO does not see anything wrong with partnering with PACE to produce these on line courses. The IO efforts started over 2 years ago under the direction of CEO James Carpenter. I do believe that their attitude and stance of not consulting with or notifying the Florida Chapter of this program illustrates perfectly the rhetorical question that IAEI members throughout the Southern Section have voiced for years. This question being "Is the IO a business or is it a membership serving intity ! ! ! ! ! Well guess what, I now fully understand that my membership with the IAEI is supporting a BUSINESS, rather than the needs of the membership base.

Historically the Florida Chapter was forced into the CE programs in 1993-1994 when the IO fell down on the job. Yes, the Chapter did request that they handle CE in Florida as the official IAEI representative. That did not come about and over the years much time has been committed by Chapter members to keep our CE program viable. WE did not and the current people do not get paid for their efforts on behalf of the Chapter. BUT the IO people do ! And they do not even have the simple courtesy to confer with us about on line courses; they just dropped it on us out of the blue last Thursday 08/12/10.

I have notified our Chapter President and Secretary that I personally feel that this just plain sucks ! I have also notified them that i am going on record this date on and until further notice that I am going to treat the IAEI-IO as being hostile to the membership. I am also going to treat them as being belligerent to the membership.

A large number of people in this great Florida Chapter devote selfishly of their time, energy, and professionalism for the common good of the Chapter, its Divisions, and the electrical industry. Even If I have to be a majority of one, I am making it my goal to impress this upon that office in Richardson TX.

Dick Widera

Okay my curiosity is up now.
A few years ago at the 75 year anniversary. When the io was stuck without a Florida approved course we accommodated them.

Where would one find a listing of the subject courses?
I would like to see if they have 14 hours if they cover all the specific courses required in Florida for Inspector/contractor alike.

Ruben,

The courses are the property of Pace. It is their provider number and course numbers that are listed in their web site. The email flyer that came out last week is misleading. It appears as if the IAEI-IO is the provider. This is further mitigated with the signing of Dave Clements' signature on the flyer. I think Mr. Sasso needs to contact his people in Tallahassee and see if every thing is on the up and up with this IAEI/Pace partnership and their application to the ECLB. And a legal partnership it is because they admitted to having a signed contract with Pace. Also I am waiting for Neal Burdick to provide what information he has about the IOP's keith Lofland being the designated instructor.

As the old saying gos; "The plot thickens."

Dick W.

Okay I am not familiar with PACE.
Since I did not receive the infamous email.
What is their website?

Well I found the site on my own.
http://www.pacepdh.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=content.home&pageID=128
Currently, They offer all the courses for contractors but not inspectors.
Coming soon to a theater near you?
For $125.00
And they have like four testimonials from Florida contractors.
Here is a excerpt from their site:
Pace has courses to fulfill your 14 hour continuing education requirement. We currently do not have the 2-hour false alarm requirement for alarm system contractors.

Technical code change courses are here! Pace has partnered with the International Association of Electrical Inspectors(IAEI) to develop the best online electrical code change courses available. Members of the twenty NEC code-making panels contributed to the development of the authoritative text used in this online course.

So does this mean some of the roadrunners have participated in this venture? And they did not let anyone know?

BTW,
I don't see Keith Lofland listed as a instructor on any of the courses. It appears to be Bonnie Hite.

Well I also looked at the prices:
This is a cut a paste so it is not formatted well.
Technical
Active Solar Energy Systems (BSP/GEN) 1.00 $11.00
Daylighting for Energy Efficiency (BSP/GEN) 1.00 $11.00
NEC 2008 Analysis of Changes - Part I (T) 4.00 $44.00
NEC 2008 Analysis of Changes - Part II (T) 4.00 $44.00

Workplace Safety
Fall Protection (WPS/GEN) 2.00 $22.00
Hand and Power Tools Safety (WPS/GEN) 1.00 $11.00
Lockout/Tagout (WPS/GEN) 2.00 $22.00
Personal Protective and Life Saving Equipment (WPS/GEN) 2.00 $22.00
Scaffolds and Scaffold Safety (WPS/GEN) 1.00 $11.00
Stairways and Ladders Safety (WPS/GEN) 1.00 $11.00

Business Practices
The Building Envelope (BSP/GEN) 1.00 $11.00

Workers Compensation
Workers Compensation - A Brief History (WC/GEN) 1.00 $11.00

General
Advanced FBC, Enforcement and Education (ADV/GEN) 1.00 $11.00
Advanced FBC, The Florida Building Commission (ADV/GEN) 1.00 $11.00

Advanced Module
Advanced FBC, Permits & Applications (ADV/GEN) 1.00 $11.00
Advanced Florida Building Code (ADV/GEN) 1.00 $11.00

So for the interim I would see if a live class can compete with those prices.
It appears to be $11.00 per hour.
Even though they state:
Price Match Guarantee
If you find a better deal anywhere, call us at (800) 576-4341 and we’ll match it.

I performed a quick google serach for "Florida Electrical Contractor Online Courses." Here's what came up. The point is that there are many, many, many, online educational opportunities for electrical professionals here in Florida. None of these in my opinion are greatly impacting the Chapter's and Division's seminar attendance.

I also don't feel that the IAEI name attached to one will make all that great of an impact either. There may be a last minute rush for those out there that wait until the end of August on renewal year to get the required hours. These guys are always looking for the easy way out regardless of where it comes from.

This can also be used to the advantage of our members. I had one member contact me that was lacking his 1-hour Advanced Module credit. We offered the course for free to our members but he wasn't able to attend that meeting. So, I gave him the link to the PACE website. He contacted PACE directly and they gave him the course for FREE, a $11 value. As far as he is concerned, it was his membership to the IAEI that got him the free course.

So, I am going to make the best of the situation since there is nothing else that can be done about it.

Electrician License School Online
http://www.electricianlicenseschoolonline.com/florida.html

Jade Learning
http://www.jade1.com/jadecc/registration/course_listing.php?state=FL&trade=Electrical

Red Vector
http://www.redvector.com/Home/Contractor/FLContractorCE.aspx

Contractor’s Institute
http://www.contractorsinstitute.com/

Mike Holt
http://www.mikeholt.com/previewstatecourses.php?id=20

NFPA Online
http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/category.asp?category_name=Training%20(Computer-Based)&cookie%5Ftest=1

UL University
http://www.uluniversity.us/common/ncsresponse.aspx?rendertext=onlinelearning