Check out Senate Bill 838 and House Bill 607.

If successful, section 489.537(3)(f) of the F.S. will be revised to require at least one licensed journeyman electrician on any new or exisiting commerical or industrial facility of 5,000 gross square feet where the work perform exceeds 98 volts.

The current provision is for 50,000 square feet or more of new facilities only.

The law would take effect July 1, 2011.

I Hope it passes both houses,

Bryan ck the HB 607 again I can't find anything that relates to Journeymen in that bill, found the Senate Bill

never mind I found it

Usually these bills die but given the unlikely provisions in this one, it would not make sense for the home builders to oppose it.

I am all for it.
Many moons ago some jurisdictions required licensed journeymen on a job.
And everyone barked about it.(Contractors)
Then it kinda went away with all the changes in Tallahassee.
I recall the home builders were the strongest fighting it.

Then it kinda came back with no provisions on who or what would monitor and license them. It was just a mention in a bill with no details.

I have always felt it would benefit the electrician and the customer.

Implementation would probably be tough. Due to finding them at first. But as time progresses that would go away.

I think this might be the bill that Steve Wise sponsored and has bee floating around for a few years. I think it couldn't even got out of committee in 2008 or 09.
I would be astonished if the thing ever gets to the floor with the strong pro business congress we have.

I can't see where this would hurt home builders. In the current employment market liscensed journeymen are about a dime a dozen, at least in the area I am in. On the job I am currently running (and BTW I am NOT a liscensed journeyman) I have 2 former superintendants (both with cards) working for me who are getting paid peanuts for the qualifications that they have.

And way back when we did have the provision, I was never asked if I had a card. If they state is going to require that there be a journeyman on every job then there should be a state recognized journeyman's card. And I don't mean a card that tests your ability to find things in the code book, just because you can pass a test on the book doesn't mean that you can take that knowledge and apply it in the field. Maybe this would be a good topic to discuss under a seperate thread.

That was my question. Who says you are a journeyman if there is no state certification in a right to work state? As far as I know DBPR is the only agency that can certify anyone here legally.
Is that on the table yet?

some counties give the test

Section 489.537 of the F.S. outlines some of the powers of local jurisdictions (counties / municipalities). The ECLB exempts employees of licensed contractors from being required to have a license of their own. However, section .537 adds the one stipulation for a required j-man. Section 489.5335 states that a j-man in one municipality or county must be recognized in every other.

Keep in mind that a j-man card is NOT a license. It is only a certificate of competency, much like ICC certifications.

This still leaves an open question. What if your county doesn't certify J men? It also brings up the question, is the standard in Dade County the same as Pinellas? Who establishes that standard?

The licensing board for that particular jurisdiction would establish the standard (usually in the form of prerequisite experience and then successfully passing an exam) and no, it is not necessarily the same standard from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

That is the scary part then isn't it. I believe that is why we got the FBC in the first place. I don't think we should have a law requiring a J card until we have a standard of what that means.

You make a good point. But remember, the ECLB can also develop a test, with prerequisites, and issue that type license. I'm not sure if legislation would be needed - my guess is no. They may be able to create that category within their own Rules.

It is my humble opinion that Florida is way behind in this aspect of licensing. Other states have state-level electrical journeyman cards. The test is hard (trust me, I know) and you must maintain a specific amount of CEU credits (electrical in nature) to maintain the license. You need at least the journeyman electrical license to be an electrical inspector in those states, or to perform certain types of electrical work.

We need to catch up.

PS - When I say "we need to catch up" I am not advocating that I support or do not support this particular bill. This bill seems a moot point to me since the application is so restricted. But who knows maybe it is a baby step to other journeyman requirements.

Back in 1979 I went to Colorado to work and before I could go to work I had to sign up to take their Journeyman's test. It was given twice a year and if you failed it twice you could no longer work in Colorado for a year! It was much tougher than the Block journeyman's test in Florida...
Electrical contractors were the ones that wanted to do away with the journeyman requirement and effectively did when the state created the EC license since an EC did not have to have a journeyman on any job site. And how much good does it do to have one journeyman on a 50000 sq. ft. job?
But this would be a start. I see so many job where the lead guy appears to have never read a code book, only knows how he was taught to do things....

This is a good topic for me.
I like the way back when stuff.
I recall in the early seventies. Before I got a j-card.
We were working at the Lakeland ledger newspaper.
At the time the city of Lakeland required a journeyman but Polk county did not.
But the rule was all non licensed people were to always be in the direct supervision of a card holder.

And this part I am not sure if true because it was so long ago.
But I was told there was also a ratio of one licensed journeyman to three helpers.

So it was always a easy day when a inspection was called for the non card carrying journeymen because they had to stay by someone that had a card.

Not to go off topic but let me tell you -- about the Colorado Journeyman's exam. That is a tough, tough, test. I dare say it is the same test as the master's exam. I would bet money on it.

Yes, it is far tougher than the block exam. No comparison.

I thought all of the inspector tests were pretty easy (IAEI 2A,2B,2C, SBCCI residential, commercial)
I was in the lobby in 45 minutes on the SBCCI resi test.

AGREE. Although some have trouble with the electrical plans examiner test. But these tests can in no way compare to Colorado Electrical Journeyman Exam. It was probably one of the hardest tests I ever did take. But on a positive note, I had the unique opportunity to visit Golden.... and take in the sights....as the snow gently. slowly, floated to the ground.......it was like I was trapped inside a Christmas card! And I wasn't complaining!

For electrical professionals, the ICC electrical exams are quite simple. For non-electrical professionals, they are a nightmare. So, I guess it is all relative. The hardest exam I have taken from ICC from my perspective was FIRE INSPECTOR I, yet I have heard fire professionals tell me that exam is a joke...

Success is in the preparation. If you make a diligent effort to study and prepare, every exam is passable.

Ben Franklin said it best, "fail to prepare, prepare to fail".

After re-reading the pertinent statutes related to this bill, it appears to me there really is not teeth behind this this requirement.

The j-man requirement is in part (F) of Section 489.537(3). That section states: "Nothing in this act limits the power of a municipality or county:"

Based on that language, this rule can onlyt be enforced if the local county or municipality wants to. It's not going to be enforced by that state nor is there anything in the section that states what happens if one doesn't comply with the rule.

It is my understanding that only certain areas of South Florida have J-Man requirements on the books. I don't know of any other county or municipality that has j-man rules in the local ordinances...

That has always been the issue Bryan. If the state is not going to adopt a statewide card program it will not happen.
I only see this as a financial hardship to the working person.

This item has been on the books for years and it looks like there has not been any progress at all.

If the state took over the registration of j-cards. And there was reciprocity then it would become a popular program.
Because financially it would appeal to the working class people.

Hello All,

It appears the Journeyman Bill is moving forward. The following link is an analysis by the Regulated Industries Committee. The bill is now with Community Affairs.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2011/0838/Analyses/t95vcYjU0PaL3FQTUIjXZQ/DET8=%7C7/Public/Bills/0800-0899/0838/Analysis/2011s0838.pre.ri.PDF

I am positively in favor of minimum qualifications for all employees of licensed contractors. Florida has licensed qualifiers to obtain a contractor's license and then they hire a supervisor and laborers to do the work (read rental employees to avoid workmans comp.) The intention in law was good but the actual practice circumvents the intent.
I want to see qualified individuals on the job that I do not have to monitor...I can tell stories...

I agree with Ron.