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#8138 - 03/15/11 05:34 PM Apartments with no smoke alarms
Nick Sasso Offline

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Registered: 11/08/01
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Loc: West Palm Beach
Seek opinions for the following hypothetical scenario: An apartment complex with no smoke alarms in any of the units.

There are 549 units.

The management wants to install the smoke alarms.

The building is existing.

Under the Florida Existing Building Code, would this be considered a "repair," Alteration Level 1, Level 2, or Level 3?

WHY OR WHY NOT?

Any opinions will be appreciated.

Disclaimer: I will not be responding to "does it have a fire alarm system," or "does it have a sprinkler system," since this is not part of the question at hand. Yes I agree - these are all important. For the purposes of this discussion I seek only opinions on the nature of the described work. Thanks! laugh

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#8139 - 03/15/11 07:02 PM Re: Apartments with no smoke alarms [Re: Nick Sasso]
Bryan Holland Offline

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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
I believe the classification of work would be an Alteration Level 2.

Quote:
404.1 Scope. Level 2 alterations include the reconfiguration of space, the addition or elimination of any door or window, the reconfiguration or extension of any system, or the installation of any additional equipment.


In the end, it will ne NEW electrical work in an existing building.

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#8140 - 03/15/11 07:19 PM Re: Apartments with no smoke alarms [Re: Nick Sasso]
Nick Sasso Offline

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Registered: 11/08/01
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I know. I looked it up before I asked. It just strikes me as odd that it is a Level 2, but it is a Level 2.
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#8141 - 03/16/11 12:39 AM Re: Apartments with no smoke alarms [Re: Nick Sasso]
Nick Sasso Offline

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Registered: 11/08/01
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Loc: West Palm Beach
Bryan, as a follow-up:

Why do we need to dig this deep when FEBC Chapter 3 says:

302.1 Existing buildings or structures. Additions or alterations to any building or structure shall comply with the requirements of the Florida Building Code, Building for new construction. Additions or alterations shall not be made to an existing building or structure that will cause the existing building or structure to be in violation of any provisions of the Florida Building Code, Building. An existing building plus additions shall comply with the height and area provisions of the Florida Building Code, Building. Portions of the structure not altered and not affected by the alteration are not required to comply with the code requirements for a new structure.

What am I missing?

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#8142 - 03/18/11 10:11 AM Re: Apartments with no smoke alarms [Re: Nick Sasso]
Bryan Holland Offline

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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
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I have made that exact statement many times Nick.

As best as I can tell, unless you are performing a true repair, any other electrical work performed is NEW work and must comply with the currently adopted NEC edition, even when in an existing building.

For example, if someone replaces a bad GFCI receptacle in a kitchen with a new working one, it is a true repair. But, if someone is remodeling their kitchen and replace a receptacle with a new one, it is NEW work. A repair is due to a defect, not because you want to change the color or device style.

It's a good bet that any work performed that would require a permit is new code no matter what the age of the building the work is being perfomed in.

I don't see much guidance or clarity in the FEBC when it comes to electrical issues...
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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#8143 - 03/18/11 10:57 AM Re: Apartments with no smoke alarms [Re: Nick Sasso]
Nick Sasso Offline

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Registered: 11/08/01
Posts: 1451
Loc: West Palm Beach
This FEBC code seems poorly organized, IMHO.

I understand about the different methods, but I would argue 708.1 trumps any other part of FEBC, or FEBC method (like you say) because you are installing new WIRING and EQUIPMENT. Agree?
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#8152 - 03/21/11 06:34 AM Re: Apartments with no smoke alarms [Re: Nick Sasso]
Bryan Holland Offline

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Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 1622
Loc: City of North Port
I agree...
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Bryan P. Holland, MCP

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