Are any of the counties out there that require low voltage permits, having a hard time getting readable plans? All I ask for is the wire type and drop location on a plan with a label and any equipment being installed. The majority of our permits our security systems for commercial and they are all chicken scratch.The low voltage contractors are famous for not posting permits or plans. Just curious.

Could you be more specific? If it is just one or two drops, I probably would not want plans. I think you are talking about maybe a ton of data lines? Or it could be CCTV or security? I'm not sure how to answer yet.

Who is NOT requiring license and permit? DBPR has made it clear that the licensing is required for data/communication/telephone and everything (except the CATV- As I told someone who wanted to know why they sere exempt: "THEY went to all those D*** meetings!) We see a lot of detail on some plans almost equals or exceeds the electrical.

or we just get a permit and inspect.

The NEC does not give any min spacing for support or straps. some cable manufacturers have specs. Since we inspect for "safety" IT PRETTY MUCH LIMITS US TO UL ( OR OTHER nrtl) listing on components.

What do others look for? other than reasonably supported above the ceiling tiles?

PS: I believe that a ceiling area is "INACCESSIBLE " when they install insulation directly on the tiles. you CANNOT re-install the insulation after removing a single tile. even if you try it is just 'somewhere' above the tile. when installed they put in a row of tile. add a row of insulation then a row of tile and row of insulation. all tidy and tight. Remove a tile and insulation. it is the wrong tile remove another to access j-box. best you can hop for is to ge about 50% of insulation back in place and tile in the hole. Have we disturbed "the building finish" ? I say the insulation is shot. NOT accessible.

The City of Key West requires permits but plans are required.

I don't think the original poster is actually asking about permits...his question was more or less about low-volt plans and what can be done if they are not legible.

The city of North Port has modified Chapter 1 of the Florida Building Code to include the following section:

The biggest culprits are the security companies and maybe I am being a little tough. Mostly they are 2500 square foot units with typical security systems- Door contacts,keypads,sirens,motion detectors etc. All I am asking is for it to be legible. See attached photo.

Believe it or not,there are a few counties around me not requireing permitting for low voltage. As far as inspecting we use the NEC to the best of our ability- Listing, cable installation etc.

I am seriously wondering why he even wasted the sheet of paper? This is not being "green." He is destroying the earth. Perhaps next time, suggest that he submit his plan on any standard piece of unused toilet paper that can be found in on the floor of the hall bathroom in Pasco County building department. Crayon will also be accepted.

He takes great pride in his installation.

LOL, Nick, are you insuating our County Building is dirty with toilet paper on the floor?? I am thinking of installing toilet paper with scale grid on it so the contractors can use for their plans. You can probably remember some of the plans we get here in Pasco, unbelievable.

I was kidding about your bathroom but it must be the same person because I remember getting crap like that, too.

Florida Building Code 106.1.1 Information on construction documents. Construction documents shall be dimensioned and drawn upon suitable material. Electronic media documents are permitted to be submitted when approved by the building official. Construction documents shall be of sufficient clarity to indicate the location, nature and extent of the work proposed and show in detail that it will conform to the provisions of this code and relevant laws, ordinances, rules and regulations, as determined by the building official.

If the applicant does not provide plans and information to meet the above code section, then reject their permit until they comply. I have rejected several permit application because the plans were not legible or did not supply enough information to ensure code compliance.

+1

All I can say is the file attached does not even show me what is going on at all.
I can understand that a contractor does not have the resources to hire a draftsman. But that submittable is just useless.
WOW!

Nassau does not pust too much for detailed plans on LV, unlees it is a large commercial job. It doesn't seem worth it for SFR's and small jobs as we will only get the shabby drawings y'all are mentioning...we just inspect to code. Are y'all having trouble about existing/abandoned lv wires like I am? I get so much flack about either removing them or tagging the on both ends...

One thing that nobody has really touched on yet is the number of different low-voltage contractors for the same job. I have found this to be true even of the small, "vanilla-box" type jobs. I have seen a separate contractor for phone, data, security (alarm), security (CCTV), fire alarm, etc. Having a plan no matter how "shloppy" at least lets one know, hopefully, the scope of what they are being responsible for. I bet a bunch of permits get sold with the work description simply stating "low voltage." This doesn't say too much...just my opinion. And too many foxes may get into the hen house.

Not to mention all of the revenue that isn't being collected.

When we set up low voltage permitting we decided to issue separate permits for each category- communication,data,cctv,audio,security,fire,general. We won't accept just "low voltage".So far it seems to be working quite well except for the quality of some of the plans.

Haven't heard from the inspectors on any abandonment issues.

Paul,
I treat the abandonment of LV cables per the code. I either have them remove the cables or they can tag both ends (at the terminal board and it's other end somewhere accessible). Where this get so arguable is when I have new tenants move into an existing space. The electrical contractors have no problem with 120 volt & up but I end up having to insist on compliance for the low voltage wiring. I suppose it is because it was never an issue before.
I'm sure it will get better with time.

FBC 106.1.1 is interpreted to state that a clear intent be submitted. For other than 1&2 family, they are being reviewed by the Fire Code Official (FCO) and inspected by the fire inspector for penetrations and plenum rating; as applicable. If I do not ask for a clear plan, the FCO will.
Access and delayed egress control and certain audio systems take a bit longer to get out of the FCO than most other LV permits.

+1

Updated statement (as it seems I could not edit my previous post); typically building plans that indicate conduit with pullstrings for the indicated locations does not provide wiring information for which either a revision for the wiring/cabling information is provided, or a separate permit is applied for and the revision/permit application is to indicate the system(s) to be installed. Fire Alarms are required by the FCO to be permitted separatly. An Engineered Fire Alarm system is required to be included with the building plans when the value is >$5K per '07FBC 106.1.1.1 and 105.3.1.2. Abandoned cables are either removed or tagged for future use.